Question for you Plumbers! Flushometer Low Flow Issue

[Kraftwerk]

Hello There,

I had a faulty old REX valve which was over 30 years old, parts were getting hard to find and performance dropped off over the years so it has been replaced with a brand new Royal Sloan Flushometer. Now I believe the old Rex and the new Sloan under-perform due to a lessening of water pressure in the system. It takes about six flushes to clear the bowl.
Over the past 22 years flow has decreased considerably. I live on the 4th floor of an old loft building in NYC. Water pressure gets worse every year. My research tells me that a 5 gallon thermal expansion tank placed in line with the feed will increase the water pressure enough so The Sloan will flush and fill compleately with one pull of the handle.
Well, to me, that sounds like heaven!

So I just bought a Utilitech 5 gallon tank. I am ready to install. There is a 1" copper feed to the toilet. A few questions: how close to the Flushometer should this thing be placed? What is the ideal pressure for the expansion tank? The Factory pressurized it at 25 psi. Do I need to place a pressure dial in line with the feed or can I simply check the tank with a tire pressure gauge? Should the tank be above or below the 1" feed to the flushometer? How does this work exactly? Won't it pressurize the water trying to come in to the system and cause the pressure to back off?


I really love the old Gerber Bowl and the idea of the flushometer system. Just had the toilet seat hardware re-chromed (!) I really want to keep it all together and get it working. Thanks for any help or information.

jt

[rick-l]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

. My research tells me that a 5 gallon thermal expansion tank placed in line with the feed will increase the water pressure enough so The Sloan will flush and fill compleately with one pull of the handle.

Not a plumber but an expansion tank is not going to increase pressure or flow.

[oldE]

Rick,

The expansion tank, placed near the toilet will act as an accumulator, compensating for the poor flow rates through the building supply.

Jt,
You don't need a gauge, position shouldn't be critical. Just get it as close to the toilet as you practically can, with no old pipe between it and the fixture.

Happy flushing.
Les

[Kraftwerk]

Thanks Les. Will see if this will work. Its definitely worth a try..

[Mo_Gearhead]

Water "pressure" has little to do with the way a toilet flushes. At least the older ones.

The "volume" of water released and how the bowl is designed (water outlets under the rim, their angle, and the design of the discharge chute/trap) are the determining factors. The water pressure ONLY fills the holding tank - the rest is gravity, so additional volume is what you need.

*Unless you are in an aircraft!

[oldE]

Originally Posted by Mo_Gearhead

Water "pressure" has little to do with the way a toilet flushes. At least the older ones.

The "volume" of water released and how the bowl is designed (water outlets under the rim, their angle, and the design of the discharge chute/trap) are the determining factors. The water pressure ONLY fills the holding tank - the rest is gravity, so additional volume is what you need.

*Unless you are in an aircraft!

Mo,

If you amend that to read "volume over time", I agree.
His problem is old lime-choked plumbing in his building is restricting the water flow, which is all-important to this style of unit. The accumulator will place a low-restriction, adequate-volume supply close to the device, which should allow it to perform as intended.

Les

[Mo_Gearhead]

Quote: "The accumulator will place a low-restriction, adequate-volume supply close to the device'
_____________________

Perhaps he needs to clean the "lime-clogged" toilet discharge outlets in the bowl itself?

My point is - water pressure ONLY fills the holding tank/accumulator. That tank's capacity is critical to the flushing efficiency of a toilet bowl. Ever hear anyone complain about the new "green" low-capacity-toilets, that use less water with each flush?

Increasing the water pressure to five hundred pounds PSI might fill his toilet TANK in .00276 seconds! - or old, clogged pipes may take an hour to fill the tank, but (1) pressing the handle (2) raises the rubber ballcock and then (3) GRAVITY and the afore mentioned design of the bowl will determine its efficiency at how it flushes.

* Unless his toilet is somehow plumbed directly to the water inlet pressure!

[oldE]

Mo,

I think I see the source of misunderstanding between us.
He is talking about a tankless system.

Manual Flushometers | Sloan

Therefore his flushing capability is mostly dependent upon the flow rate of his supply. The accumulator should provide an adequate flow for the period of the flush.

Yes, deposits in the waste trap can cause degraded performance as well.

Sorry we've been comparing apples and oranges.
Les

[Mo_Gearhead]

Quote: "He is talking about a tankless system'
_____________

Indeed - my mistake then ...carry on.

[Zeke]

Why isn't the old Flushometer toilet being replaced by a modern Toto 1.6 gal. tank type? They work each and every time with very little water. Some even have a "dual flush" system that uses even less for yellow water.

Quiet too. I hate gas station toilets.

[Kraftwerk]

Hey Milt and all,

just top clarify I LIKE the Flushometer, when it works properly, it is like nothing else.
Just an explosion of water, which clears he bowl instantainously. Very satisfying.
It has been here for 30 years.
I prefer the design and looks over a tank type system. Although tank it will be and Toto is a consideration, if I cant get the Sloan valve to do its thing. The way people talk up Toto product
on the plumbing forums I say " buy" stock in them (if not also their products) Anyway I will sweat this tank on and see how it works.
Thanks all for your input.

jt