Bangladesh

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Considering moving some production to Bangladesh. Anyone ever done business there? What's the climate like, e.g. India is "promise anything and hope to deliver."

[scottmandue]

You are so going to get flamed for this...

Boston to Banglabesh... talk about culture shock!

[MRM]

It's OK but hard to do business in. The problem is that the country is so poor that it may be hard to get raw materials. If you can't source good quality raw materials locally, you lose the advantage of cheap labor.

I'll ask my wife, but I think one of the countries that is getting a lot of work these days because of their educated work force, labor rates, relative reliability and local materials is Vietnam.

Now you're really going to be flamed. But what is better? Would people prefer you not do business than to have the work done where it makes the business possible? It's not like we're better off if you shut down your doors because you're too good to have your product finished off shore.

Oh, and look into Ireland. Seriously. They're desperate for manufacturing work and might be offering incentives.

[cashflyer]

Ireland is desperate for any work, but unless there are subsidies you will not see the savings over staying onshore (imo).

You're in clothing, right? Go to walmart and check the shirt tags for country of origin. Those are the places you need to be looking.

Oh, and seriously... Vietnam may be a good suggestion.
Google says that Ellen Clothing (Cong Ty Thanh Chuong Co.) has a DC office and will give you details and quotes. Ph. 202 470 2665

[Zeke]

I just got some tees made in Egypt. I'm sure the marketing people liked that so they could say they were made from Egyptian cotton. They do seem nice, but I haven't worn or washed them yet.

Why Bangladesh? Why not L.A. sweat shops?

[teenerted1]

why not the local home depot parking lot?

[Erakad]

I've always thought it was the bulls-eye for every cyclone that enters the Bay of Bengal. Was the subject of a benefit concert....about 1980??

[MRM]

OK, Wifey confirms what I said and adds some detail. She says that Bangladesh is so poor they don't have rocks. She also says that they have the same culture as India. Which means that they promise, promise, promise, and never deliver. The problem is that without someone on the ground, you're at the mercy of the locals. She suggests Hondurus, Vietnam, and Israel. Israel has big tax breaks for manufacturing and is one of the hubs for high tech fabrics. Hanes manufactures its high tech bras in Israel. Lots of other companies are in Israel too.

The problem is total cost management. You have to balance low labor costs against the cost of delays, getting ripped off, transporation, raw materials, and having a reliable supplier.

Frankly, the suggestion of East LA was pretty good. Have you ever thought of exploring manufacturing through Home Boy Industries? [HOMEBOY] industries They used to be huge in baking, but have been hard hit by the economic down turn and are desperate for more work. I'll bet you could get a great deal from them.

Wifey says keep it in the US for realiable supply. You can afford the cost of goods because of the added value you have with your artwork. At $9.99 you can't manufacture in the US and you have to compete with the Targets and Wallmarts of the world in the third world for cheap manufacturing. At $29.99 you can afford to pay US rates and make money.

She suggests getting a man on the ground that you can trust in southern China and doing it there. Otherwise, try to do it here or develop a man on the ground wherever you do go.

[HardDrive]

Shaun, not sure what you need done, but I have family in northern India that makes fabric and related products. I don't know if the do end to end product for clothing. I know they do for rugs. Are we talking printed T-shirts?

[stomachmonkey]

You realize that it'll cost you like $20,000 a day to go there and check it out.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

You realize that it'll cost you like $20,000 a day to go there and check it out.

Oh come on......A week in Mumbi with lots of booze $6000. Way less if your willing to work with simpler accomodations. Bangladesh? Way, way less.

[porsche4life]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

You realize that it'll cost you like $20,000 a day to go there and check it out.

I have some friends that are going to spend a month in Thailand for less than that... WAY less....

[rsNINESOOPER]

Not to throw rocks but if you move production of your shirts to a foreign country you will lose all rights to b-itch (HA! censoring) about the American economy. Its this very thinking on a widespread level that has led the US to where it is today and its lack of manufacturing jobs.

If possible consider some other alternatives such as finding a company or small shop that can get close to the manufacturing cost you desire which is hard to do when up against Thailand particularly. As an additional idea why not offer the information to your vendors and eventual end consumer that you are selling a product that is American made.

Out here in California in LA and in my neck of the woods (San Francisco Bay Area) there are tons of print shops and competition is fierce. A friend who owns a surf and skate chain of stores in the greater Bay Area and valley area has all his shirts for his clothing line printed in LA and Oakland even though he has family and manufacturing in China.

Just a suggestion to look into other alternatives before you send work abroad

Or rent 1000 square feet of space and buy some used equipment and train someone to work part time Or??

[HardDrive]

Never claimed you would get more printing with less time dealing with BS. Delays are the norm in India. Doesn't really help to think in terms of 'delays'. Thats life in India. Money vs. PIA. Make your choice.

[MRM]

The problem is that Shaun has a very narrow window of production. He has to roll out the new product for this year's fashions in time to get it through the brokers and buyers and into stores in time for the entire selling season. And then he does it all over again with the next season's clothes. If he doesn't keep designing something new and fresh each and every season and getting it to market timely, he goes out of business.

He's not a small operation that sells a few shirts here and there to corner head shops and strip mall T-shirt stores, that can make do with a vacant garage and a couple of part time workers. He needs someone who can ship entire containers of product directly to national retailers. The kind of people who sell Shaun's product don't need a few shirts or a few hundred shirts; they need tens of thousands to fill their inventory on a national basis. That means dedicated, professional manufacturing with reliable delivery times, perfect product, and reasonable cost.

If you can't keep it in the US, you can't. Once again, if people want you to be too good to let the manufacturing work go out of the country, what's the alternative? You go out of business, the people you employ (here and abroad) lose their jobs, and people who would like to buy the product don't have what they want to buy. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Can you set up manufacturing through a broker here who has a man on the ground or controls facilities there?

[juan ruiz]

I have a contact in Colombia, for this type of thing if we are talking about containers, quality is excellent and prices are good. Let me know if you want me to hook you up with them

[red-beard]

I guess the issue really to ask is...

Shuan, what is the problem you are trying to solve by moving production overseas? Is the problem labor? Materials? Taxes? Environmental regulations?

[juan ruiz]

Cost of production, will be my guess?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by MRM

It's OK but hard to do business in. The problem is that the country is so poor that it may be hard to get raw materials. If you can't source good quality raw materials locally, you lose the advantage of cheap labor.
Oh, and look into Ireland. Seriously. They're desperate for manufacturing work and might be offering incentives.

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Ireland is desperate for any work, but unless there are subsidies you will not see the savings over staying onshore (imo).

You're in clothing, right? Go to walmart and check the shirt tags for country of origin. Those are the places you need to be looking.

Oh, and seriously... Vietnam may be a good suggestion.
Google says that Ellen Clothing (Cong Ty Thanh Chuong Co.) has a DC office and will give you details and quotes. Ph. 202 470 2665

Ireland? Who knew! I talked with a good friend (handles all my shipping) who is from Ireland. He's checking it out for me, thanks for the tip.

Originally Posted by milt

I just got some tees made in Egypt. I'm sure the marketing people liked that so they could say they were made from Egyptian cotton. They do seem nice, but I haven't worn or washed them yet.

Why Bangladesh? Why not L.A. sweat shops?

LA likes to do 4-5 colors, simple cut and sew. Prices are very attractive with this model. I do a minimum of 10 colors per season of both simple and complex (stripes) styles. Net net: if I wanted to comprise the styles and colors, LA would be perfect. Now this was a few years ago when I was doing local U.S. production, but LA was definitely not hungry for work then.

Originally Posted by MRM

OK, Wifey confirms what I said and adds some detail. She says that Bangladesh is so poor they don't have rocks. She also says that they have the same culture as India. Which means that they promise, promise, promise, and never deliver. The problem is that without someone on the ground, you're at the mercy of the locals. She suggests Hondurus, Vietnam, and Israel. Israel has big tax breaks for manufacturing and is one of the hubs for high tech fabrics. Hanes manufactures its high tech bras in Israel. Lots of other companies are in Israel too.

The problem is total cost management. You have to balance low labor costs against the cost of delays, getting ripped off, transporation, raw materials, and having a reliable supplier.

Frankly, ...snip to fit... them.

Wifey says keep it in the US for realiable supply. You can afford the cost of goods because of the added value you have with your artwork. At $9.99 you can't manufacture in the US and you have to compete with the Targets and Wallmarts of the world in the third world for cheap manufacturing. At $29.99 you can afford to pay US rates and make money.

She suggests getting a man on the ground that you can trust in southern China and doing it there. Otherwise, try to do it here or develop a man on the ground wherever you do go.

All excellent advice and have lived a lot of it. My last foray was China which at first went very well, and then, didn't and isn't fixable. Longer story than warrants here, but China has changed in the last few years and I definitely need a man on the ground I can trust.

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Shaun, not sure what you need done, but I have family in northern India that makes fabric and related products. I don't know if the do end to end product for clothing. I know they do for rugs. Are we talking printed T-shirts?

Even easier than printed T's, blanks as I do my own silk screen. 3 silhouettes/styles for spring using 10 colors, 12 designs over 12M to 12:

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

You realize that it'll cost you like $20,000 a day to go there and check it out.

For me, $200,000,000.

Originally Posted by rsNINESOOPER

Not to throw rocks but if you move production of your shirts to a foreign country you will lose all rights to b-itch (HA! censoring) about the American economy. Its this very thinking on a widespread level that has led the US to where it is today and its lack of manufacturing jobs.

If possible consider some other alternatives such as finding a company or small shop that can get close to the manufacturing cost you desire which is hard to do when up against Thailand particularly. As an additional idea why not offer the information to your vendors and eventual end consumer that you are selling a product that is American made.

Out here in California in LA and in my neck of the woods (San Francisco Bay Area) there are tons of print shops and competition is fierce. A friend who owns a surf and skate chain of stores in the greater Bay Area and valley area has all his shirts for his clothing line printed in LA and Oakland even though he has family and manufacturing in China.

Just a suggestion to look into other alternatives before you send work abroad

Or rent 1000 square feet of space and buy some used equipment and train someone to work part time Or??

All excellent points. Some background: Started off with US production because of these very sentiments. US production was both too expensive and not responsive to a small (at the time) company's needs. US MFG couldn't be bothered with small orders and didn't see the potential. And for shorts, pants, etc., US MFG at any quantity is gone. My cargo shorts/pants and cords can only be made overseas.

You have brought up one of my dreams though. I have 3500 square feet of space now and do my silk screen in-house. If the banks were lending, I would build a cut&sew infrastructure right here and hire a combination of local and visa. Even with our growth, banks aren't lending and it's a lot more than just putting a few sewing machines in a room.

I expanded our screen printing capabilities substantially with new/used equipment and plan on keeping as much as I can in the US.

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Never claimed you would get more printing with less time dealing with BS. Delays are the norm in India. Doesn't really help to think in terms of 'delays'. Thats life in India. Money vs. PIA. Make your choice.

India could rule the world if they got their collective act together. The combination of overpromise and underdeliver with entrenched corruption as the norm doesn't scale.

Originally Posted by MRM

The problem is that Shaun has a very narrow window of production. He has to roll out the new product for this year's fashions in time to get it through the brokers and buyers and into stores in time for the entire selling season. And then he does it all over again with the next season's clothes. If he doesn't keep designing something new and fresh each and every season and getting it to market timely, he goes out of business.

He's not a small operation that sells a few shirts here and there to corner head shops and strip mall T-shirt stores, that can make do with a vacant garage and a couple of part time workers. He needs someone who can ship entire containers of product directly to national retailers. The kind of people who sell Shaun's product don't need a few shirts or a few hundred shirts; they need tens of thousands to fill their inventory on a national basis. That means dedicated, professional manufacturing with reliable delivery times, perfect product, and reasonable cost.

If you can't keep it in the US, you can't. Once again, if people want you to be too good to let the manufacturing work go out of the country, what's the alternative? You go out of business, the people you employ (here and abroad) lose their jobs, and people who would like to buy the product don't have what they want to buy. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Can you set up manufacturing through a broker here who has a man on the ground or controls facilities there?

One good lead is a company based in SC that has a factory in Honduras. That's my best possibility right now.

Originally Posted by juan ruiz

I have a contact in Colombia, for this type of thing if we are talking about containers, quality is excellent and prices are good. Let me know if you want me to hook you up with them

Containers?

Originally Posted by red-beard

I guess the issue really to ask is...

Shuan, what is the problem you are trying to solve by moving production overseas? Is the problem labor? Materials? Taxes? Environmental regulations?

The problem is rooted in the very nature of garment manufacturing. I'm pretty sure it's like no other and the exact same issues effect companies like me to ones doing $1M/quarter and much larger.

Factories of all sizes are constantly going out of business.

Factories will take your 30% down and deliver 2 months late, after your cancel date. Pretty much went out of business spring 08 as a new Indian MFG shipped so late, we were able to ship and collect on 20% of orders.

Factories will send you top of production that's perfect and then your actual production is half quality: not cut correctly to spec, no shrinkage allowance built it, colors off, hardware off, not sewn properly even though everything is spelled out in a spec and actual samples that are exactly to spec are provided.

Factories will cut corners wherever they can, whenever they can.

Cost: India is expensive and quality is excellent, China is inexpensive but you get what you pay for. Duty is very expensive!

Balancing growth with production has been our greatest challenge. With dependable production providing excellent quality garments, on time, comes more sales and therefore more orders and then expanded styles and more sales...repeat. Production has consistently held the company back since we pretty much sell out every season.

[The Gaijin]

Originally Posted by MRM

She says that Bangladesh is so poor they don't have rocks..

This is literally true. They make clay bricks, and then break them up by hammer to make aggregate to add to concrete...


I work in trade and see more and more of this sort of producation coming out of the Caribbean and Central America free trade zones. The shipping times are not that much less than Asia, but their are tax incentive and import duty perks to make it worth it.

Also, the cultural divide looks to be less, and some of these places you would not mind visiting yourself..