Buy Or Sell a Used Spoon

Targa Me · Targa Me's Garage

Where do you look to buy or sell a used spoon?

Jim Bremner · 11-08-2010, 08:54 AM

calguns

what do you have?

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

A buddy has a pawn shop, uses these guys. Guns - Online Gun Auction - Guns at GunBroker.com

Targa Me · Targa Me's Garage

It's a 9mm Browning, made in Belgium. Its about 20 years old.

Targa Me · Targa Me's Garage

Thanks Joe Bob.

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

Use Calguns. Try and keep all off-roster guns in the state, if possible.

id10t · 11-08-2010, 09:43 AM

gunbroker.com

JR Indy · 11-08-2010, 09:58 AM

emcon,

I'm in the market and new to CA, what is an "off-roster" gun?

Jeff Higgins · 11-08-2010, 10:32 AM

I would stay the hell away from gunbroker. I had a very, very bad experience with them last year. Whoever runs that site makes absolutely no effort whatsoever to police it, or investigate concerns of fraud, illegal gun sales to disqualifed people, or sales of illegal guns to otherwise qualified people. They hide behind the shop-worn "all we do is privide the site - all transactions are the buyers' and sellers' responsibilities" b.s. Let me be clear- they are facilitating the illegal interstate transfer of firearms both to and from folks disqualified from owning them, and they are facilitating the sale of illegal firearms. Stay away. Not that you will get burned, but there is just no sense in supporting such an operation. Whoever owns and runs that site belongs in jail.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Jeff paints with a broad brush. I've had plenty of successful transactions on GB and never a bad one. They may not do much to help in cases of fraud, but I can't see how they're facilitating illegal transfers. Since all interstate gun sales have to go through an FFL, who then has to do a NICS check on the buyer, I don't know why GB is to blame if someone slips through the cracks in NICS. If you want to see a site that's crawling with prohibited possessors and BATF stings, check out your local Backpage's gun listings.

I think CA has a lengthy list of what's allowed and what's not. I'm sure any 20 yr. old Browning is grandfathered in. But I can see how CA gun folks want to keep as many CA-legal guns in state as possible, since there could be reimportation issues on a gun that was grandfathered, but lost that status once it left CA. Not sure how that works, since I live in gunowners' Mecca.

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR Indy

emcon,

I'm in the market and new to CA, what is an "off-roster" gun?

California has a "Safe Handgun" roster which limits what dealers can sell new. Guns that are not on the roster are still legal to be transfered between individuals (through an FFL with DROS and waiting period of course).

I can't get to any links from work, but if you Google california safe handgun roster you will find more information.

The Calguns Wiki is a good place to start.

audiman08 · 11-08-2010, 12:14 PM

I'm not sure about gunbroker.com either, it's probably better to make friends with someone who has an FFL...luckly I married into a big gun family

Jeff Higgins · 11-08-2010, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Jeff paints with a broad brush. I've had plenty of successful transactions on GB and never a bad one. They may not do much to help in cases of fraud, but I can't see how they're facilitating illegal transfers. Since all interstate gun sales have to go through an FFL, who then has to do a NICS check on the buyer, I don't know why GB is to blame if someone slips through the cracks in NICS. If you want to see a site that's crawling with prohibited possessors and BATF stings, check out your local Backpage's gun listings.

I think CA has a lengthy list of what's allowed and what's not. I'm sure any 20 yr. old Browning is grandfathered in. But I can see how CA gun folks want to keep as many CA-legal guns in state as possible, since there could be reimportation issues on a gun that was grandfathered, but lost that status once it left CA. Not sure how that works, since I live in gunowners' Mecca.

Most folks have nothing but good luck with eBay as well, the world's largest fencing operation. I guess I could care less about eBay, but I do think it is a bit more serious when guns are involved.

NICS is run on the buyer, not the seller. You do not need to be an FFL or send through an FFL, just receive through one. Nor do FFL's in one state normally check other states' myriad of laws concerning what is legal to own in the sender's home state. To stick with your California example, guns are getting sold out of California that are illegal to own in California.

Gunbroker's approach to dealing with fraud is not to. They do promise to answer any concerns withing 24 hours, but that is is to simply close it out and label it "complete" or "answered" or whatever their parlance is. Disputing or seeking clarification on their initial "response" elicits no response whatsoever from them for at least a couple of months. From there, communications are weeks apart. They try to wait you out, but, more importantly, they give it time for the trail to go cold on any illegal activity.

Honest men should not deal with, or encourage operations that knowingly enable the illegal interstate transfer of firearms. Even if it is convenient to do business with them, even if you have never had any issues.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Since when do FFL's have to check on a seller or end buyer to ship to another FFL? Anytime I've had an FFL ship to another out of state, he's asked for a copy of the the FFL. It's all between the FFL's at that point and the buyer doesn't touch the gun until the NICS check is good on his end. Where's the problem in that? I've never had an FFL ask me for any paperwork on a gun I was shipping out of state, so maybe that's a loophole in the law. But I'm sure they're not breaking it, as most of those guys are pretty meticulous about not doing stuff to jeopardize their FFL.

Guns that are illegal to possess in one state are not necessarily illegal to sell out of that state. In fact, CA authorities probably appreciate people doing their work for them. I think the ban in hi-cap or LEO-only mags in CA applies only to importation or possession. So if you ship them out of state, you've exported them and you no longer possess them. No harm, no foul.

tabs · 11-08-2010, 02:04 PM

One of the first transactions I had on GB was a sale of a WW2 Luger with Holster and Capture Papers. Sold it to a guy down inTexas that has a shtye load of "A" rated transactions (sales) on GB. Well about 2 months later I start getting E-mails from people who buy on GB. They told me the guy who bought the Luger relisted it and had doctored the Capture Papers on the Luger to include another gun...Fraud. So I contacted GB about the matter. The Listing was pulled but the guys account was not suspended.

It seems like a lot of people on GB have long memories. Also it is not uncommon for me to see a gun sell at aucition and several weeks or a month later to be advertised by a dealer on one of the internet sites with a markup.

Personally everything I ship is to an FFL or C&R as the case may require unless it is an antique, where the BATF doesn't even consider that to be a gun. This ensures that my buyer is going to be legally able to purchase that gun, and I have a record of where that paticular item is sent.

JR Indy · 11-08-2010, 02:26 PM

emcon,

Thanks, I'll look into it more.

tabs · 03:13 PM

Here is the deal in Cali, there is a list of dropped tested guns that are deemed to be of sound mfg. If a gun is not on that list a DEALER can not sell it in CA, it can be sold between two private parties in which a Dealer acts as the transfering agent, A Dealer can take the gun in on consignment and sell it for the person, or a Dealer can sell it out of state. If a gun is over 50 years old it falls under Curio & Relic and can be sold by a Dealer. So if you have a Colt 1911 A1 that is 40 years old a Deler can not sell that gun but he can sell a 51 year old Colt 1911A1.

All hand gun models have tobe submited to the state for a Drop Test by the mfg. MFG do not submit discontinued or older models for the Drop Test So it is those handguns that Cali deems tobe unsafe and can not be sold by a Dealer.

Selling into Cali is beothch as well. A out of state Dealer has to call the Cali DOJ to get a secret number for that transaction. When the in state receiving Dealer goes to register the gun to the buyer he has to provide the state with the secret number. That is why so many Dealer so No Mas to selling to Californians. Now if it an antique no problamo or a C&R Long gun. is no problamo. Handguns I am not so sure about anymore? .

BTW one can not ship a C&R gun to a C&R CA license holder it has to go to a FFL where the C&R license holder can go and pick up the gun.

tabs · 03:09 PM

Legaly anyone can ship a gun through the USPS, UPS or Fed Ex. However it has to be going to an FFL..which could be a gun mfg where a repair is going to be made. Most states allow the gun to be sent back to the the owner with out having to go through a reregistration by an FFL. Sometimes an out of state buyer wants a gun shipped by an FFL, and that is to have recourse if the gun is not up to the buyers snuff.

UPS will only ship handguns OVERNIGHT, Fed EX says the same thing howevr if you take off the grips the gun is now GUN PARTS and can be shipped GROUND. The best way to ship a Hand gun is USPS...it requires a form to be filled out which is kept by the USPS. Generally the USPS likes ittobe a FFL or C&R to ship handguns through them. For Long Guns the best way is Fed EX Ground it seeems to be a bit cheaper than the USPS. Howeve if your shipping anything over $5000 the only way is USPS REGISTERED MAIL and they will insure up to $25,000.

Never ever tell Fed Ex it is an ANTIQUE...they won't insure it for more than $500. If you ever have to file an insurance claim it has to be done by the SENDER OF THE PACKAGE. Fed Ex requires an estimate of repairs if the item can be repaired.

AMMO and AMMO Components have to be shipped UPS HAZMAT...this is something I will not screw around with. If something should happen in transit and the AMMO goes off...they will come and take you away. Nowadays as a terroroist.

BTW USPS now has the $14.95 Priority Mail boxes pkus insurance which are ideal for a handgun.

I have become irrate with auction houses that charge $50 shipping on handguns

tabs · 04:15 PM

The place where I get burned most often is with Auction houses. Their descriptions and pictures most often are not up to snuff. With auction houses once you buy it, it is yours. Some will take it back if the description is not as they say it is or will reconsign it at a reduced commission.

Mostly the the auction house is just stupid or lazy. Many of them auction everything under the sun and are not specialists and have several hundred to catalog, photo and describe.

If you are truly interested in something it is best to call and have them eyeball the item and describe it over the phone. When I do this I would say I am 90% overall happy with whatever I get. It is on the occasion usually when I don't call that I am less than happy. With several houses I just know their descriptions are good.

There are several house which I would like to tell to go fk themselves but there may come a day when they have something I want. So I bite my tongue. However I become very careful with them.

Then we come to buyers commissions. Online auctions usually charge the Internet Bidder a higher commission than a Floor, Phone or Absentee bidder. The Internet provider charges 5% to the auction house, which they pass on. So if the auction house is charging 10% to the floor bidder and 20% to the Internet bidder the Internet bidder is at a real disadvantage.

As a seller through auction houses negioate the commission. On big ticket items 0% to 5%..smaller ticket items 10% to 15%. On big $$$ collections you are in the drivers seat, as the auction house if gona make it on the buyer commission and those collections do draw buyers like flys to shyte. One auction house I know of doesn't like small ticket items so he charges real bank to sell them.

Then there is where is the best place to sell a particular item...what is hot in one part of the country maybe cold in another, and each auction house does better with particular types of stuff. Even placement of an item in an auction catalog makes a difference. And each house has its own peculiar order of selling stuff. One may start out slow to begin with and create rising action, while another hits you with a great item, slows and then rises to the best stuff pretty quick. . Another may start out with a set order of catagories. The Europeans tend to put the very best at the very end.

Also auction estimates in the catalogs, some tend to lowball items and some tend to estimate items higher. It just depends on who you are dealing with.

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

I've bought a few old guns through GunBroker and have never had a problem. I prefer to buy locally and I NEVER sell guns...