Tell me about black powder hunting.

[HardDrive]

Missing deer hunting this year because of a trip to Africa. I hunt with my father in Michigan.

Discovered that there is a Dec. season for black powder. We have no black powder experience. Where do were start?

A) We don't want to spend $$$ on rifles, but don't want to hunt with junk. We'll listen to reason.

B) I think it would be damn cool to hunt with an old school cap charged rifle of some kind. Something with a nice big hammer to pull back.

C) Must be suitable for whitetails in southern MI. Most shots are under 50 yrds.

Any advice most appreciated.

[aigel]

I would go with an inline muzzle loader, shotgun primer. Fairly modern and not meeting the nostalgic requirement, on the other hand, easy to set up, very reliable and very accurate to shoot even with open sights up to 100 yards. I recommend this model. It sells for under $150 in the blued version!

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/images/tire-selector/tires/all-terrain-t-a-ko.jpg

Caliber 50, load up with sabot .44 caliber bullets. 100 grains of Pyrodex pressed pellet powder and you will be ready to go deer hunt. Expect it to group at 4" or less at 100 yards.

Hope this helps. I am no expert but the above has worked very well for me - except for the elk not cooperating.

George

[slodave]

Originally Posted by aigel

I would go with an inline muzzle loader, shotgun primer. Fairly modern and not meeting the nostalgic requirement, on the other hand, easy to set up, very reliable and very accurate to shoot even with open sights up to 100 yards. I recommend this model. It sells for under $150 in the blued version!

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/images/tire-selector/tires/all-terrain-t-a-ko.jpg

Caliber 50, load up with sabot .44 caliber bullets. 100 grains of Pyrodex pressed pellet powder and you will be ready to go deer hunt. Expect it to group at 4" or less at 100 yards.

Hope this helps. I am no expert but the above has worked very well for me - except for the elk not cooperating.

George

Snow tires?

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by slodave

Snow tires?

You use the snow tires to set the black-powder rifle on to shoot I guess?

[jsmithcds]

50 cal Knight Disc Rifle
Easy Accurate and Deadly.

Preformed powder charges are a must. To Load drop in two shaped charges of powder followed by your slug and ram it home.

Drop the disk with the primer into the breach and drop the bolt.

Ready to go.

200 yard shots with confidence. In wisconsin you are now allowed to use scopes on your black powder gun in shotgun land. (Rifle hunting is only allowed up in Northern Wisconsin.) I actually use mine during shotgun season because of the reach.

[yel911]

Thompson Center makes various models of muzzleloaders that are affordable. These are inline and are very accurate. Good luck!!!

[Jeff Higgins]

Thompson / Center builds quality, American made caplock rifles that will fill your needs with aplomb. They have traditional blued steel and wood models all the way up through stainless steel and composite camoflaged models. They make in-lines as well, if that is what you want. Personally, I believe the modern shotgun primer (209 primer) fired, sealed breach in-lines should be illegal for muzzle loader seasons, as should jacketed pistol bullets in plastic sabots and any sort of optics. I don't want to get into a philosophical discussion about that (and you probably don't either), so suffice to say these bonus black powder, aka muzzle loader seasons, were originally meant to be "primitive weapons" seasons. But, alas, like so many things in life, the folks seeking every advantage started pushing the letter of the rules rather than the spirit of the rules. Some states are pushing back - read the game regs very carefully before purchasing anything. Washington, for example, does not allow plastic sabots and pistol bullets, optics, sealed breaches, or 209 primers. Pennsylvania is flint lock and round ball only. Other states vary widely.

The most popular caliber for deer hunting is by far the .50. That sounds big, but it really isn't in muzzle loader terms. It's kind of the ubiquitous ".30-'06" of muzzle loading. It has the most available in the way of bullet styles and weights, support equipment (loading and cleaning), and plenty of power for white tails.

There are three common genres of projectile for the muzzle loader. The most traditional is the round ball, loaded with a lubricated cloth patch around it. They are wonderfully accurate and provide the highest velocities, lowest recoil, and flattest trajectories, but they shed velocity like a badmitton birdie. The .50 caliber only weighs something like 185 grains. They kill surprisingly well, moreso than their "paper ballistics" would indicate.

Next up (chronologically) is the elongated bullet. Many modern versions are available, with the T/C Maxi Ball being the one that started it all in the modern age. Heavy for caliber, these provide the most punch, but also the most recoil. The .50 caliber weighs 370 grains. It will shoot through any white tail, from any angle, at any range from which you can hit it. I've hunted with the larger .54 version of this since I was in my teens, killing more game with it than all of my other rifles and handguns combined, and have never recovered a bullet.

Lastly, we have the saboted pistol bullet. Essentially, you take a jacketed bullet meant for something like the .44 mag and put it in a plastic sabot to take up the windage in a .50 or .54 barrel. The muzzle loader drives these bullets to velocities never envisioned by the bullet designers. Failures are common, with hollow points blowing up like varmint bullets on the near side hide, leaving nasty wounds and escaped deer in their path. They should be outlawed for that reason alone.

There are a huge variety of suitable powders available today as well, not just black powder. There are many modern substitutes. Some work well, some don't. Some states allow them, some don't - again, check the regs. I prefer the real deal - black powder. Some say it's too messy, too corrosive, yadda yadda yadda... It does require fairly immediate clean up after use, but so do most of the substitutes. It does start to foul the gun fairly quickly, making it difficult to load after just a couple or three shots, but you're hunting, right? This is only an issue at the range when sighting it in and testing loads. It's available in two common flavors, "FFg" and "FFFg", otherwise known as "double F" and "triple F". FFg is appropriate for the .50. 100 grains of the stuff under a Maxi Ball makes for an excellent load.

A word about rifling twists: Traditional round ball twists in the .50 run 1 in 66" or 72". Pretty darn slow - too slow to stabilize anything longer, like a Maxi Ball. T/C uses a 1 in 48" twist as a compromise that will shoot both round and Maxi Balls well. They also have a 1 in 28" twist meant specifically for Maxi Balls. I've used the 1 in 48" with perfect satisfaction, hunting with Maxi Balls and plinking with round balls. The plastic sabot / pistol bullet combo works best in the faster twist.

Lastly, there are a large number of imported caplock guns available from outfits like Cabella's. They are imported by CVA, Traditions, and others. Some are quality guns, most are not. They are not that much cheaper than a quality, American made T/C. Don't waste your time with them.

[vash]

T/C makes a rifle..called the Encore?? i think.

it is modular. you can change barrels to muzzle loader, shotgun, rimfire, and even convert it to a pistol. it is all inline. looks cool.

i wonder if a big .45 cal pellet gun would be legit during the muzzle loader season. those things are really cool.

[tabs]

Uberti and Pedersoli are two of the Itie replica mfg's that make quality reproductions. I U were to ask me what BP rifle would I take out into the field to go hunting with, I would say hands down a PAPER CARTRIDGE 1863 SHARPS...It is a breech loader, uses a Musket Cap and shoots a non metalic paper cartridge that is made from nitrated paper. They usually are of 50 or 54 caliber. These are a bit more expensive than a Thompson Center by a factor of 2.5 for a Pedersoli. If you stay American, Shiloh Sharps you are talking at least a G for a used one, when you find one. These BTW are a BLAST TO SHOOT.

TC Hawkens etc are modern Hybrids, and the basic quality is there, it does lack a certain something. But what do ya expect for about 200 used. Before you jump take a good look around so as to understand what is available and for what price.

The first rifle I ever bought on my own was a TC Hawken in 45 Cal back in 1972. It came with a whole bunch of Goodies like 2 bullet molds, tang sight, and accourtments to load it with for $110.00. It is still in the spoon closet, havn't shot it in dam near 30 years. So BP is basically a FIRST Love in long spoons, for hand spoons there is no substititute for metalic cartridges.

BTW the inline BP stuff I would give you a nickel for anyone of them. To me they are absolutely boring.

[tabs]

Here is what ya want...and you can buy one down at the BIG 5 Sporting Goods store for $295.99. It is a Jagger Rifle in .58 Caliber and it even comes with a 2nd Lock and 20 GA smooth bore barrel. BTW the Sling is extra...

[HardDrive]

Wow, thanks for the info guys. Very helpful.

[Jeff Higgins]

Most states do not allow breach loaders of any kind during black powder seasons. I know Montana used to, and still might, refering to theirs as a "black powder" season instead. Again, check the rules for your intended states - they vary more than any other hunting rules, as far as equipment allowed.

Rifles like the Knight Disc, with their sealed breach and/or 209 primers, are illegal in many states. They may be legal in Wisconsin, but they are not legal here, for example. Same for optics. Check the regs...

Pre-formed powder charges, like the Pyrodex pellets, are certainly not a "must". Loose powder works just as well and is far more versatile with regards to developing an accurate load for a particular rifle. The pellets are typically 50 grains each, therefor only allowing for loads of 50, 100, or 150 (which most rifles are not rated for anyway) grains. Your rifle may shoot far better with, say, 90 or 110 grains than it would with 100. Loose powder allows you to explore that.

There are a good variety of plastic "ready loaders" on the market that hold a powder charge, a bullet, and a primer in one handy plastic container, partitioned between powder and bullet. A couple of those in your shirt pocket and you can reload as quickly and easily as with the pellets. Maybe even more so.