Desktop Computer
 

It's time for a new desktop - the old one (Dell Dimension 8300) is showing signs of old age.

I need to run a GIS (computerized mapping system) and that's about the only really demanding thing. It already runs on the Dell box, albeit slowly for some tasks.

I need about 600 Gbytes of storage, which shouldn't be too hard to get these days.


What should I get?

I just built a kick butt system for $750...

Asus mobo, Intel i5 650 (3.2ghz) w/ 2 cores, 8gb ram, 1gb video card. For drives I used what I already had, so system is on a 120gb SATA and home/data storage is on a RAID-1 120gb array. My 750 included a 23" flat panel, so if you don't need a monitor you can spend the monitor $ on much larger drives.

I use mine primarily for graphics and 3D modeling. Don't know if this'll help (don't know jack about computers), but I bought this box about eight months ago. Have a friend who's an IT guy for an engineering company who spec'd it for me, says that I'd have to spend beaucoup bucks more to go the next step up. I think I paid about $2300 (just the box, have the dual monitors, etc).

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1290173882.jpg

Here at work we run several GIS programs. We still run XP Pro since some of the programs will not run on anything else. We recently bought a used Dell 380 Workstation. Twin processors, and the motherboard has a built in RAID setup. We mirror a pair of 2 TB drives. A 2 TB drive is only 100 bucks anymore. With the mirroring we have protection from a hard drive crash.

The average image we work on is one GB so storage was important.

The bottom line is for under 600 bucks we got a machine with two processors, and a built in RAID controller.

Thx, but am interested in new only, not used. Also, would like to keep it < $1,000 for the box, so we can get a big LED screen.

Webb,

I bet they ship, custom built to your specs at Hard Drives Northwest in Seattle. They have pre-packaged deals also.

I'm looking at a new PC too.

http://shop.hdnw.com/default.aspx

You can build a system from Newegg for cheap these days. I'm running an AMD Phenom II X6 1090, 6 core 3.2 GHZ, about equal to the upper middle range i7 processors for 1/2 the price. And they are on sale right now!

PassMark Intel vs AMD CPU Benchmarks - High End

An i7 940 is $599. The AMD CPU above is $229!

Without a Monitor, you can build a cranking system (high end Video card, RAID 1TB, 4-8GB RAM, etc) for under $1K.

Thanks, James. I followed your build thread.
I also looked at the best components article on zdnet.

I've never done it before - any thoughts on how long it would take to do?

I agree with James about buying off-brand. I have used the same vendor - except for one Dell mistake - for 15 years. He sells clones - but high quality clones & therefore I don't have to assemble it. I got an I5-650 4GB 1 terabyte etc etc for $900 in Canuckistan dollars. Very happy.

Ian

About 1 hour to assemble, maybe 2 if you've never ever done it. Loading the OS and doing the updates over the internet take the longest part of it. But that is walk away stuff.

Too bad you're not closer, I'm about to build another one this weekend. And before the end of the year, I'll be building another Phenom X6 system with some leftover parts and a few buys.

A few things:

Most of the Motherboards are ATX or micro-ATX. Make sure the case you buy can fit what buy.

If you're looking to do a higher end system with AMD, go with a Gigabyte MB. They seem to have the best price point. Make sure that it can handle the 125W processors. If you want maximum performance go with MSI and really fast RAM (DDR3 2133).

Make sure you get a case with at least a 650-750W powersupply.

From the same website, you can see the videomarks from the videocards. I settled on a RADEON HD 4870 (mine was made by XFX) for price vs. performance. It smokes! But produces a lot of heat!

Pickup a USB 2.0 card reader. They are cheap and make it easy for all the different kinds of cards.

You want the 64 bit OS. Windows 7 Home is fine.

I don't plan to put Blu-rays on my PC. I went with a "generic" DVD burner. They are like $20.

You want a minimum of 4GB of RAM. Make sure what the MB can take on type, size and speed. Do not buy in 6GB increments. This is something that goes with the Intel machines. If you want this for a while, get 8GB RAM.

Don't buy a CPU cooler. The 1090 comes with one.

I would suggest you get a "slot cooler". It is an extra case fan that fits in a spare slot. Getting a case with more than one fan is a good idea for a high performace machine.

Motherboard (Gigabyte or MSI)
Case & Power Supply (750W)
Hard Drive (2 if you want RAID) (6GB/s SATA)
CPU (AMD Phenom X6 1090)
RAM (4GB, SD3, Speed based on M.B.)
DVD Burner (Buy a $20 one, SATA)
Multi-Card Reader
Video Card
Operating System (Win 7 Home or Win 7 Pro x64)
*Keyboard & Mouse
*Speakers

You can re-use the * items if you have them.

Thanks. I have a keyboard that mimics the old NorthGate(IIRC?) ones - Avant-Stellar.

any rough ideas on how much bucks (total or %) I save by going the component Newegg.com route over buying a comparable system from hp, Dell, or a smaller place?

Thanks for the list James. I'm gonna build me a new workstation in a couple weeks.

Our home computer just died and we searched for a replacement that would stand up to high demands and last a few years. After much searching, we ended up with a Tigerdirect.com refurbshed unit:

Asus Essentio CG5275-AR003 Refurbished Desktop PC - Intel Core i5 650 3.2GHz, 8GB DDR3, 1TB HDD, DVDRW, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit at TigerDirect.com

It seems like a really good deal. My wife tried to pay more to get a higher end unit that would last longer but the guy who sold it said this was the best one for the price and not to spend more. It's far better than what the computer vendor I use for my firm had to offer for at least $400 less.

I'd look over Tiger Direct and compare their specs and prices to new and used with other companies.

I just retired my Dell Inspiron 8300 and bought a laptop for about $1k. I needed the laptop since I visit a lot of clients and need portable computing. I have it set up with a docking station so it seems just like a desktop computer but can be portable too.

Regardless of desktop or laptop, anything you buy will be lightning fast compared to the old Dell (mine was 100% trouble free it's entire life). The new dual, quad, and core chips are incredebly fast. My internet speed seems to have doubled with the new computer, even though nothing has changed with the internet.

You can find many computers for less than 1K.

I would reccomend sticking with Dell - they have a good reliability record. I purchased an HP laptop and I am returning it this weekend and replacing with a Dell due to an overheating issue and it's only 1 month old.

Shop the Dell website and you can also look at the Best Buy site - sort by price.

For similar to what I built, I would've had to spend $1k at dell or more...

PDF of shopping cart... http://www.itsjustcrap.com/NewEggNewBox.pdf

Hardware breakdown (su -c "lshw -html" > hardware.html) sj-desktop

your pdf shows a total of ~$750; if a comparable Dell system was $1,000 as you estimate, then the savings is only $250. (???)

MRM's Asus buy looked good until I saw the # of bad boxes received (at the bottom of the linked page)

You would have spent more like $1500-$2K. Something comparable to the AMD unit with an i7 will be in the $2K+ region at Dell. Look at the "gaming" machines.

A Similar Dell Machine, except the DDR3 is slow at 1333 and the Video card is probably slower - $1999

This is comparing to my Phenom X6 1090

Studio XPS 9100

Software & Services
PROCESSORS Intel® Core™i7-960 processor(8MB L2 Cache, 3.20GHz) edit
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® 7 Professional, 64bit, English edit
MEMORY 4GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz - 2 DIMMs edit
MONITOR No Monitor edit
Dell Recommends
Experience vibrant colors and clear images with a 21.5" Dell Full HD Monitor!
Upgrade to ST2220L 21.5-inch Full HD Widescreen Monitor [Add $189.00 or $6.00/month1]


VIDEO CARD ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB GDDR5 edit
HARD DRIVE 1TB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache edit
OPTICAL DRIVE Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability edit
SPEAKERS Dell AX210 Stereo Speakers edit
KEYBOARD Dell Consumer Multimedia Keyboard edit
MOUSE Dell Studio Optical Mouse edit
SOUND CARD THX® TruStudio PC™ edit
MODEM No Modem Option edit
Personalize
SERVICE PLAN 1 Year Basic Service Plan edit
Dell Recommends
Attention! You may want to extend the term of your Limited Hardware Warranty* and service plan. The average cost of a Dell hardware repair without a warranty is $210. Upgrade now to a 2 Year Basic In-Home Service Plan. In-Home Service after Remote Diagnosis: for issues covered by Limited Hardware Warranty, technician and/or part will be dispatched, if necessary, usually in 1 or 2 business days following Remote Diagnosis. During Remote Diagnosis, you may be asked to access the inside of your system (where safe to do so) or to participate in troubleshooting until a cause can be isolated. *Important Info

Upgrade to 2 Year Basic Service Plan [Add $169.00 or $6.00/month1]


OFFICE SOFTWARE Microsoft® Office Starter 2010 edit
SECURITY SOFTWARE McAfee SecurityCenter, 15-Months edit
DATASAFE ONLINE BACKUP Dell Online Backup 2GB for 1 year edit

If you are a member of Costco, I just purchased a Gateway computer there.
AMD 6 core processor (1035)
6GB of RAM (1033 MHZ bus)
Radeon HD 5450 with 512MB
1 TB HD
and a 23 inch monitor, capable of 1900x1080

for $700.00

Steal if you ask me.

This one looks pretty neat but probably doesn't fit what you want.
Xi3 Modular Computer | iTech News Net - Gadget News and Reviews

That is a good buy!

I just bought (4) four 1TB Western Digital hard drives for $240 (total for 4) for a server I'm building for a client. I bought them from TigerDirect and they arrived in 3 days.

so James, if I've got this right, I can build a system like yours for about $1,000 and a similar Dell system would cost $2,000 (??)

Mac or PC, I would go with a ho-hum computer and a blazing Solid State Drive (SSD). Or a better computer with a RAID1 array of two (1TB) 7200rpm disk drives.

The average computer these days has enough processor power to do most demanding tasks. That said, I would try to get an Intel quad-core 45nm CPU and 4GB RAM. More RAM is probably not necessary.

The Apple Cinema 27" is THE display to have.

Yes

thanks!

I am going to defer a decision until Black Friday & see what's up with pricing at Best Buy, online, etc. I always prefer to go in well-armed (with knowledge).

I see Costco has Dell 7100s on sale also.

Randy,

use PassMark Software - CPU Benchmark Charts to help you understand the different processors and video cards. Also, the speed of your memory will have a direct effect on the speed of you system. 2 processors may have similar names, but they may be vastly different in capability. i7 800's vs, i7 900's are a good example.

All of the machines I'm building I use 1600 and higher for memory speed. If they are using DD2 memory, they are old machines. Only get a machine with DDR3. No less than 4GB of memory. I wouldn't take less than 1333 unless it is a SMOKING deal.

Make sure that the hard drives are 6GB/s and that the MB can handle 6 GB/s.

Make sure that the LAN speed is 1GB/s, as this is the new standard.

x64 operating system (Win 7 Home x64 is just fine!).

If you go Intel, get a quad core or at least and i5.

thx - I printed that out

thinking about it, the hassle of transferring all my data is the biggest reason I have not upgraded this computer (Dell 8300) since 2004

Is it a SATA/SATA II drive?

If yes - just connect it to your new computer. SATA II is great (6GB/s) but really SATA (3GB/s) works fine.

If no - get an external PATA enclosure, put drive in there, connect to new computer, and let it run overnight copying files. Bonus is now you have a backup external drive of your data.

no, I Xfer things semi-manually - keeps the data stream pure

(avoids extraneous cookies, OpSys crapola & etc.)

I finally threw away my old punch cards tho...

You had punch cards? (In my best Monty Python voice) We dreamed about punch cards . . . ;)

Ian

Just buy an apple and be done with it.

I bought one -- an Apple II.

Yes, my life was soooo much better after I could get my hands on a teletype terminal and didn't need to drop the punch cards in the street on the way to "The Computer Center."

but I digress...

Costco has this Dell XPS 8100 for $1,200 (with monitor):

* Intel® Core™ i7 Processor 870 (2.93GHz)
* 8MB Cache
*
12GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz (2 x 2GB)(2 x 4GB)

Drives:

* 1TB 7200RPM SATA II Hard Drive
* 16X DVD+/-RW Drive

Dell ST2410B 24" Widescreen LCD

1GB AMD Radeon 5450 Graphics

* Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet
* Dell 1525 WLAN PCIe card with 11n mini-Card & external antenna

and various other gizmos (likely loaded with a bunch of crapware also)

Costco - Dell Studio XPS 8100 Core i7-870 2.93GHz 1GB AMD Graphics Desktop

- as per above, the DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz is a tad slow
- I dunno what a WLAN PCIe card is but I'm sure it is not a Wide Area LAN; there is an antenna, so I'd guess it is a WiFi of some sort.
- it has a SATA II Hard Drive; so the SATA II designation must mean it has the 6 Gb/sec. transfer rate (or does that just mean it is capable of that, but rerely reaches it...)

Randy,

The processor is good. The 1333 MHz ram will be fine. Price looks about right. CPU is equal to the AMD Phenom II X6 1090. The Disk Drive and the rest are good.

The Video card is crap. It is a $39 card. The monitor resolution is not given.

Here is a similar system from Newegg, except that the Drive is definitely 6GB/s and the Video Card is smoking.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1290566298.jpg

The rebate on the RAM is per module, so $75 off. So the total is $1060.

On the Dell, you get a machine ready to run, with a warranty, etc. But again, the video card is a disappointment.

Thx again. You are making a good argument for me to fritter away more time on assembling a unit...

1. Will I need a wrist loop? I'll likely need to do it in a carpeted room.

2. Doing some searches, the Phenom II got some poor reviews (when first intro'd).
- comments on this?
e.g. AMD's Phenom - For suckers only | ZDNet

3. I am also getting the idea that you prefer newegg.com to other places(?)

4. Do you prefer any of the DIY Build-Your-Own-Cornputer.com sites to any others?

motherboard & video card above NLA

not sure what I need to know to match things up & not sure I want to take the time to figure it all out...

this video card: HIS H577FK1GD Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card w/ Eyefinity

-has a higher effective clock rate, but only 1/2 the "memory interface" of the one James selected -- I assume this is a bandwidth spec. of some sort & maybe a big performance hit??
- also not clear to me on how you check compatibility of the GPU/Video card with the CPU & motherboard... a search on likely terms yields some guy posting that any graphics card that is "pci express x16" compatible will be fine; but who knows??

not seeing much cyberMonday discounting at this level of machine from Costco, Dell, or Newegg...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1291074860.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1291074881.jpg