Experience with Vibram Fivefingers?

[regency]

As a runner most of my life, I've had lots of plantars faciatis and other lower leg issues. Usually my bouts with PF were directly related to the use of spikes and track interval workouts, when I was running in college. Now, that I'm old ( 53 ), just looking at a pair of spikes ( or these Vibram FF ), I would get a PF attack. I'm still running ( say jogging ) about 25-30 miles per week and have found that the Asics Gel Kayano with the Super feet incert works best for me.

I have seen / passed two guys on the bike trail who were wearing these Vibrams, both were running on the asphalt ( while we were running on the DG side ) and both were making the same sound, "slap-slap-slap-slap".

Steve

73 911 T MFI Coupe, Aubergine

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I used to run barefoot, on the sidewalk, in Texas. the wonders of youth. I'd love a pair of these but think I'd be in the hospital within a week buying some surgeon a new Aston Martin.

Please post your experience as you get into them.

[Highlander179]

Vibram says running with a heelstrike is bad for your feet, ankles, knees, hips & back, and I agree. Vibram says their shoes will make you run different to avoid the heelstrike, which is good.

I say, why should I spend $120 to run barefoot? Essentially, the problem with running aches are attributed to poor running form. Why not just fix your form, instead of buying monkey feet. No American top runners run with a heelstrike... or even a forefoot strike(except sprinters). Running with a midfoot strike is proper form and is the most efficient and safest way to run. Youtube Ryan Hall, Americas best runner.

Trendy, stupid looking, and unnecessary. Oh yeah, and they cause injuries too!

"But it looks good on you though". - Rodney Dangerfield

[djmcmath]

Some quick notes, having just gone through this:

1 - Go easy. You're building muscles that are largely unused right now, so they'll injure easily, taking you offline for a long time if you're not careful. So don't push it too hard. I've been doing it for a year, and now I'm pushing the 6mi distances pretty comfortably. I'm sure if I was really training hard, I could have more distance now, but I'm a slacker.

2 - Smell is easy to fix. Mine are in the wash right now, in fact. They're also dishwasher safe, or you can soak them in a bucket of soapy water for a day or so. Yeah, they develop a funk in a hurry, but not fixing it is just an indication that you haven't tried.


Enjoy.

Dan

[Moses]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

There is a movement away from squishy shoes for running/working out - and back to what the Good Lord gave us.

The Good Lord gave you a "natural" life expectancy of about 35 years and enough cartilage in your joints to last about that long.

Science has given you an extra 40 years and cushy shoes to help your joints endure the journey.

But go ahead...

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by Highlander179

...
I say, why should I spend $120 to run barefoot? Essentially, the problem with running aches are attributed to poor running form. Why not just fix your form, instead of buying monkey feet.
...
Trendy, stupid looking, and unnecessary. Oh yeah, and they cause injuries too!

"But it looks good on you though". - Rodney Dangerfield

I love that RD quote

Well the way I see it these will reinforce the correct running technique. They did not cost $120 - paid $90 for them out the door not counting the rewards credit from the store. My feet are sensitive so I like the protection these give me while I build up. And though I am in the minority on this I rather like the unique look. Funny how people are so freaked out with toes...LOL.

The main reason I am responding...what injuries are you talking about? So far I have not found anything negative other than pushing too hard in the beginning and getting hurt. Please share what you know about injuries - I really want to know.

[scottmandue]

What is this "running" you speak of?

I like these and was going to get a pair for kicking around the house just to be silly... but at $100 a pair the bunny slippers will suffice.

Also seeing as my toes head off in strange directions not sure how well they would fit my feet... would have to try some on in person to know if they would even fit.

I am a type 2 diabetic and always looking for ways to keep my feet warm and protected.

[Les Paul]

Highlander179 of the Woodlands?

[Highlander179]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

I love that RD quote
what injuries are you talking about? So far I have not found anything negative other than pushing too hard in the beginning and getting hurt.

The reason for your back ache is your footstrike. Heelstrike is essentially braking. When you plant your heel first, that force drives straight up your leg thru your knee to your hip. If you have weak or inflexible hips, it goes to your back. To fix your hips, try yoga or yoga type stretches(hip openers). You should also do weight training (legs, hips, core) at least once a week and core work (pilates/yoga for your back/abs) also once a week.
Heelstrike is caused by overstriding. Your foot should be landing flat, directly under the hip, with a slightly bent knee. To fix your overstriding, lean forward more and shorten your step(dont reach, just plant). Fix your form, and you can wear any shoe, minimalist or not. Have you gone to a running specialty store to have gait/form analysis done? Do it! Watching yourself is the best way to fix your flaws, plus they have pros there to help.

When you run, you should feel like your floating. If you dont have that feeling and it feels like thump, thump, thump, you're doing it wrong.

How much research did you do? Did you talk to a Podiatrist? Stress fractures, tendonitis, ...

Be careful, there is a lot of bad info out there. A lot of it makes no sense or is marketing spin, like for example; African marathon runners go barefoot? BS, give me names, years, and the events they ran because all ive ever seen of the top runners, they all had racing flats on.

Google

@LesPaul, Whats the Woodlands reference? I dont get it.

[JavaBrewer]

Thanks for the post Highlander. Totally agree it's about the good running style. I have watched videos of folks running in VFF and they are making horrible slapping sounds...not good. I have always worked on the quiet feet approach though as you point out have also been guilty of heal strike. I have already read most of those threads (from Google) and the recurring theme appears to be folks rushing the adaption process. So that said I'm not quick to blame the shoe rather the runner who is not paying attention to what their body is telling them.

Here is another great cautionary read on barefoot activities.

Starting off on the right foot.

[Les Paul]

Highlander179 the Woodlands Texas a famous Texas running school. They are the highlanders. You seemed to know your running.

[Tobra]

Scott Mandue, never consider purchasing shoes like this.

He may know running, but he does not know biomechanics very well.

[Laneco]

Oh God, "horrible slapping sounds while running" - I have GOT to tell you guys a really funny story!

We have a few psychiatric hospitals in norther Oregon. One of the road crews was working early in the morning. They were having a meeting, everyone standing around (imagine that...) with no equipment running. They could hear a sound. Weird sound, like someone clapping their hands together. The sound came closer an closer.

It was a naked women with large tatas running toward them! She had escaped from the hospital bareassed nekkid! The clapping sounds where her tatas bouncing up and down!

A few minutes later, a van from the hospital came by. The passenger rolled the window down and got about on word out of his mouth when the whole crew pointed the direction the nekkid woman had gone.

angela

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Scott Mandue, never consider purchasing shoes like this.

He may know running, but he does not know biomechanics very well.

No, no, no... my 54 year old feet and knees can't handle running... if I want to do cardio I jump on my bike.

I just thought they look funny... I would only wear them to watch TV... but too much $$$ for kicking around the house slippers.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

Sizing is smaller - I wear a 10.5 US shoe and was fitted with a 41 Euro. I have been working on the natural running method over the last month or so and work in a couple laps barefoot as well. Definite muscle tenderness in the calves and ankle area but it's getting better. I will report back after another couple months in the VFF.

I bought a pair today. I'm going to try wearing them to work. I hate regular shoes and would wear sandals full time if I could. I wear a 10.5, but ended up buying KSO Treks in 43. I also tried on a pair just like those that you posted and felt like they were a bit shorter and was going to get the 44s.

I think I'm going to end up with one of the pairs that leaves the instep uncovered (the Classic, I think, or I may get some Sprints which is the same thing but with a velcro strap) to wear instead of sandals. The sock market sure is cornered by Injinji for these things. I instantly felt comfortable in them. They are a bit tighter with socks. I'm going to try some of the lightweight socks.

Me wearing them in the house tonight to get used to them. Yeah, I got the brown leather. Now I need to buy some brown socks to go with them. Black was all they had where I bought them.

[porsche4life]

My mom has gotten some of the injinjii sock off of amazon...


I'm still not sure about these. I'm not a big runner though, and I find them dangerous for hiking.

There is a girl in my ropes classes that is always wearing these. I keep telling her its gunna suck when she stubs a toe on a rappel, or wraps a toe up in rigging....


Oh and for you sandal guys, check out a pair of Sanuk shoes... Your feet will love you.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

I'm still not sure about these. I'm not a big runner though...

I ran x-country in HS. I tried getting out of practice one day by not bringing XC shoes. Coach said I had to run, Vans (maybe coboy boots) were not going to work, so I ran barefoot. Best thing in the world!! I ran a few races that way too, but most track officials wouldn't let me "for safety reasons".

I bet those 5 finger shoes are nice for running!

[Rich76_911s]

One thing to keep in mind with these is the surface that you are running on. Maybe the good lord did intend for us to run barefoot, but he didn't have concrete and asphalt in mind when he made that decision.

My wife is a collegiate cross country and track coach at the best womens program in the country (at least for the past 2 years, hoping for a 3rd). They have, on occassion, had girls run barefoot in the grass during the off-season to develop a lighter heel strike.

So I say, if you are going to use them, find large grassy areas and avoid running on hard surfaces. As a qualifying statement, I did take biomechanics in college and it was my favorite class of all 4 years. Too bad it was a decade ago

[JavaBrewer]

My 2 month report.

First off, I cannot say enough about 'natural running' form. The last couple months have been a re-birth of running for me since I changed my running approach.

First, for my form I basically changed my strike, stride and posture. The biggest change for me is the foot strike - I was a heel striker and had to change to a mid-sole strike. This was very strange and difficult to remember to get off my heel (more accurate to say to stop over reaching my stride). My stride is much more short and quick now - I do not let my feet get too far in front of me and have a quicker cadence. Lastly, my posture is more erect and straight with a slight forward lean. A lot to remember at first but it is becoming more natural feeling (as it should I suppose). All of this was already suggested by Highlander179 and I feel the technique is correct.

The VFF are a huge learning curve for my feet, calves and ankles. I say "are" because I am still adapting to them and expect this period to last many more months. Wanting to avoid the common "too much too soon" (TMTS) injury I have been very conservative in my approach - as suggested by djmcmath. I started with slow jog of 200M focusing on good technique and quiet feet. I would then walk the remaining mile and conclude with stretching. I paid particular attention to what my feet were telling me. PAIN = STOP. If I could not stretch/flex the pain away I called it day regardless of how far I ran. Now a bit over 2 months in I am comfortably running 1.5 miles 3x a week on a mix of asphalt path and dirt trail. I am very diligent about warming up prior to the run and aggressive with stretching and flexibility after.

Since my running is not far enough along to get a real workout I supplement with cross training - primarily the Concept 2 rowing machine at the gym - which as a bonus also rehabs my achilles tendon. YES, even with all my precautions, I would be lying if I said this experiment was without some pains. My calf muscles were the first to wave the white flag (as expected) but are now 100%. My achilles can flare up about 1 hr after a run. This is not consistent but it does occur and I treat it with ice and rest. Rarely does the pain last more than a day. I have traced it to the heal strap that is on the KSO shoe - the pain is localized right where the strap wraps my foot. I don't have the pain when I run totally barefoot however I am hesitant to run BF cause I am highly allergic to bee venom and right now those suckers are all over the ground and are hard to spot on the dirt/asphalt I run on. So when I run in the KSOs I keep the straps loose - the shoes fits snug so no issues with it slipping. I might look into a mod to remove the strap completely.

Dirty KSOs after running the lake trail.


In conclusion I am totally happy with my VFF KSO. In the last month I tried on the running orientated VFF (Bikila) but really disliked the extra sole padding. The KSO is the most minimal sole and I love the feedback - even on some of the rocky trails. Just avoid the big pointy rocks and all is good. I wear them as much as possible including the gym, driving the car, and grocery shopping. The only negative comments so far are from my wife and daughter - they totally hate them. General comments from public - when I get them as this is the land of fruits and nuts (Cali) - are inquisitive and/or positive. Many of the large running shoe vendors (Nike, NB, etc...) are marketing lines of minimalist shoes which might be of interest to some.

I will report again at the 6 month mark. My goal is to run a 1/2 marathon for my 50th birthday which is in 13 months.

[billwagnon]

I started barefoot running in May 2009. I now have 1900 miles on my bare feet almost entirely on asphalt and concrete. I'm aiming for 1000 miles in 2011. I'm heavy and not particularly fast - had a 2 hour half marathon last fall.

I started out not running very many miles - I remember starting at 3 miles a week. As time went on I experienced lots of pain, sometimes for a few weeks and I wouldn't run.

January 2010 I got extensive frostbite blisters on both feet going for "more miles than degrees" because it was 5 degrees F. There was a little snow on the ground and I only made 4 miles, found out what the freezing of skin feels like, didn't run for 10 days. Turned out to be a good thing because when the skin of my soles regenerated, the deep creases I had developed across each foot finally disappeared. July 2010 I ran only two miles because of self-diagnosed PF. Last winter I ran 9 miles @ 8 degrees F with no problem but I did get chilly.

The past few months my feet seem to have adapted and running doesn't make them sore any more but it took a long time to get there.

People ask what about rocks - it's just a matter of what you land on and how you land. Occasionally I pick up glass and have to dig it out, but I also am not at all careful about where I run.

I think it would be really difficult for a real runner to maintain good weekly mileage while switching over to VFFs or bare feet. It's really easy to do too much and it takes a total overhaul of your form from running in cushy shoes. There's nothing like the feeling of elasticity when you get your suspension working right.