Pressure Cooker!

[jyl]

I got a pressure cooker last week. Kuhn-Rikon 7 qt. I'm loving it. Still in the steep part of the learning curve, though. Have made oxtail and pork shoulder so far.

I deboned the oxtail (I'm trying to get the kids to eat it), then roasted the bones, put them in the cooker with mirepoix plus garlic and cooked for 2 hour on high (15 psi). To get stock, you see. Meanwhile the boned oxtail was marinating in red wine. I dried and floured it, browned in butter, then added onions, carrots in big chunks, garlic, bay leaf, 2 cups red wine, 3 cups stock, rosemary, salt, and pepper. And the bones. Cooked 45 min on high. Finally I removed all the solids, reduced the liquid by 2/3 in the cooker, and put everything back together. It was good, but the veggies were way overcooked.

Next I tried the pork shoulder. Cut it two pieces. Dried, floured, browned in the cooker. Left-over oxtail stock and some white wine, peppercorns, butter, and garlic. Cooked for 15 min on high. Then released pressure, opened cooker, added the carrots, onions, potatoes. Resumed cooking for 30 min on high. Removed all the solids, whisked flour into the liquid, submerged the meat, slow boil to reduce and thicken, then all the parts got reunited in a serving piece with lots of gravy. Yummy, the pork comes apart with a fork. But my veg is still overcooked. I should have done 30 min-open-15 min instead of the other way.

Anyone use a pressure cooker? Tips and tricks? How do you deal w/ the veg overcooking?

[vash]

you deboned OXtail?!! wasnt that very difficult? cook it and debone after you cook it next time?

i have used a pressure cooker. i let the veggies get obliterated, and strained and gushed them thru a mesh strainer..made a thick sauce. i roasted (more) veggies on a big sheet, and added the them at the end to the stew.

[futuresoptions]

A rubber grommet fits perfectly in the top hole on mine... allows me to put my 3/8 copper tubing in providing a tight seal that I can barely fit my thermocouple into to insure I keep my mash at the right temp... you can add this one to the tricks category

[jyl]

Originally Posted by vash

you deboned OXtail?!! wasnt that very difficult? cook it and debone after you cook it next time?

It was a PITA, even w/ a very sharp boning knife. Yeah, way easier to simply pull the meat off the bones after cooking. I wanted to make stock from the bones.

[javadog]

The vegetables are there to impart flavor to the meat and gravy/sauce/whatever. They are meant to be discarded. Prepare a second batch to eat with the meat.

JR

[mjohnson]

Originally Posted by javadog

The vegetables are there to impart flavor to the meat and gravy/sauce/whatever. They are meant to be discarded. Prepare a second batch to eat with the meat.
JR

Yah to that...

Even at our altitude, 30 minutes at pressure turns most any vegetable into baby food. Good for getting the flavor into the liquid though. I usually cook the veg last with the lid off or with the normal lid.

Now brown chunks of chuck roast dusted with cayenne, black pepper and flour - barely cover with equal parts beef stock and stout - throw in a head of garlic - 45 minutes at pressure - two handfulls pearl onions, one handful parsnips - 30 more minutes without pressure. I finally figured out why I didn't like pot roast as a kid... it wasn't like this!

[BlackTalon]

x2 on making the stock in the pressure cooker. My wife makes beef stock this way every couple of weeks. But for the 'soup' step, I'm not sure what the benefit is in using the pressure cooker instead of in a pot on the stove. We brown the meat in the soup pot, saute the veggies in the fond/ fat, then add the stock and simmer the soup on the stove for ~30 minutes. (we strain the stock after removing it from the pressure cooker)

[jyl]

It wasn't oxtail soup, more of an oxtail stew, the liquid was reduced to gravy consistency. Either way, soup or stew, I find oxtail takes a lot of cooking to become meltingly tender. It is a pretty tough "cut".

[BlackTalon]

Gotcha. The couple times I have made the soup, I browned the oxtails, then put them in the pressure cooker with the 'sacraficial' veggies, peppercorns, etc. and made the stock. The oxtails cook pretty well in less then 30 minutes in the pressure cooker. Then the meat was removed, and added back in later in the 'soup' process just to heat it a bit before serving.

I guess what I am leading to is whether it's a soup or a stew, the 2nd batch of veggies does not need to cook for 2 hours in a pressure cooker. I'm a little surprised that was the 'right' amount of time for the oxtails, as it's quite a bit longer then needed in my experience. I still think you would be better off 'assembling' the stew in a pot on the stove top, as it would give you better control of each component.

[vash]

Originally Posted by jyl

It wasn't oxtail soup, more of an oxtail stew, the liquid was reduced to gravy consistency. Either way, soup or stew, I find oxtail takes a lot of cooking to become meltingly tender. It is a pretty tough "cut".

oxtail stew. doing one this thanksgiving. doing it taiwanese style with soy, some sugar, garlic, green onion..cooking wine. i add my own twist, by dropping in 2 star anise. comes out un-effen-believable.

dry tail chunks with paper towel. rub with veg oil. salt, pepper..sear them in a hot cast iron..i use a dutch oven..cast iron, enameled..(le crueset). pull them out. add the rest of the stuff together..dunk a clean finger and taste, adjust. pop meat chunks back in, and pop the entire thing into a 300 degree oven. let it go for 3 hours. braise.

i do it one day ahead. pull meat out, wrap it in foil. pour juices into measuring cup, and refridge everything. next day. pull off substantial fat cap..re-heat. serve with more fresh green onion. with rice.

[vash]

john. for a more kid friendly version. use English Cut beef ribs. or even boneless beef ribs.

everything you can do with oxtail you can use the above ribs. exactly.

[jyl]

Black, I'll try the sacrificial veg way next time. Sounds good. Oh, the 2 hours was for the stock. The oxtail was only cooked for 45 min.

Vash, I'll try your Taiwanese style oxtail too. I like the refrigerating over night. I do that with beef stew sometimes. The fat cap is great for cooking with.

[jyl]

Oh, here's a trick I use for stews and braises. I get a pound of cow tendons and cook them with the meat. The tendons almost completely convert to gelatin. The tendon remnants get thrown away - or I eat them later.

[dhoward]

Originally Posted by jyl

Oh, here's a trick I use for stews and braises. I get a pound of cow tendons and cook them with the meat. The tendons almost completely convert to gelatin. The tendon remnants get thrown away - or I eat them later.

Beautiful.
+100

[aigel]

I hate to disappoint you, but I have gone away from pressure cooking to slow cooking in the crock pot. I believe the flavor on anything from pot roast to broth is better. This is confirmed by the entire family. I now only use the pressure cooker to make brown rice (speeds it up nicely and gives good bite to the rice grains) and I also use it when I do not have time to wait 6 hours for the crock pot to finish. I always take the pressure cooker on hunting trips to make sure I am prepared for any tough small game that ends up in the pot as by-catch (you can get a jack rabbit or a geriatric squirrel fork tender in there quickly!)

I agree with everyone else, making broth, the veggies are there for flavor and color but not to be eaten (I still do, just on the side, not on the table!).

Have fun!

George

[jyl]

Vash, in your Taiwanese oxtail, what are rough quantities of ingredients for, say, two oxtail. I can't figure out if there is very little liquid or the liquid is very salty or is almost all the cooking wine or if there's water too.

[vash]

john. there is very little liquid. for one entire Oxtail, i would guess 1-2 cups of liquid. in my dutch oven. a 5.5 qt pot. i guess it is 11" in diameter, the liquid is half in deep.

soy sauce, michu cooking wine, (ubiquitous big green bottle at asian stores), one bunch green onions. cut 2 inch sections, green and white parts. 2 star anise, and sugar. we use asian rock sugar. i bet light brown would do the same thing. (ssssshhh, i sneak a pinch of red pepper flakes when wife is not looking)

the juice taste very teriyaki like. about the same "power" of flavor. taste it to balance the sweet, salty thing. you wont taste much grn onion or anise that early in the game. it reminds me of the intensity of korean kalbi or bulgogi. good luck. i'll measure exact amounts this afternoon for you. we just splash at this point. we are doing two tails around 2 pm.

remember you have to do this in a oven. or it would burn on the bottom because of the sugar.

[vash]

aigel..i good willed my slow cooker. a dutch oven in the actual oven does the same thing. i only did this because my kitchen is "galley"style..which is designer speak for small as schit. i didnt have storage or counter space for a slow cooker.

when i remodel, i'll probably get another.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by javadog

The vegetables are there to impart flavor to the meat and gravy/sauce/whatever. They are meant to be discarded. Prepare a second batch to eat with the meat.

JR

Hmmm, we used one to make round steak tender and always put the taters, onions and carrots in for the last 10-15 minutes. Ended up eating everything that was in the pot... for years now...

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

we...always put the taters, onions and carrots in for the last 10-15 minutes...

And that's the difference. You didn't put the veggies in with the meat at the start. If the meat needs 3 times longer to cook than the vegetables, the veggies will turn to mush. Omit the veggies and the "gravy" isn't as tasty. Hark, a dilemma....

Trust me, if you want it to taste as good as it can, use two batches of the vegetables. That's how the pros do it.

JR