Grape farmers, vintners ... Any here?

[gatotom]

Just finished the second yr as a smalltime grower, last yr put 220 vines in the ground, this yr 200.

Planted the euro style of growing close together, about 2 1/2 ft apart with 6 ' between rows. Wire is set at 6' hi wire with eventually with 5 wires in between. The object is to produce quality and not quanity. The site is river bottom with the river about 600 yards away with a water table of 14 ft below. Since it grows in semi-desert conditions, annual rainfall 16-18" yr we have irrigation, drip style at 2 gal per hour once a day during the heat, every other day before and after the heat and turned off in mid sept depending on the weather to harden the plants.

The object in the first 5 yrs is producing roots not grapes because if the roots are healthy the grapes will be also. Farming them is a labor of love, no work required, they grow themselves, heck they are just a good weed.

The production in 5 yrs should be about 3-5 bottles per plant and as time goes on 5 should be the consistent number. This is our figure what grows best start, the varities are nebbiolo, sangiovese, barbera,dolcetto, cabernet sauvignon, cabernet franc, merlot and petite sirah. All good choices in the red wine group.

In this second yr the piedmont grapes, mostly nebs love the spot where their roots are, growing like weeds for sure. Total investment cost so far is about 1K and all the work has been done by myself and my partner who owns the land where they are grown. The biggest cost will be in the SS containers and barrels when the wine production starts but that is a onetime cost.

In 2 yrs if everything keeps going in the direction it is going, I expect to put another 600-800 more in the ground, total land volumne is a tad over 1/2 acre.

A few pics from last yr fall.

[BRPORSCHE]

sangiovese. I would like some Chianti. Will trade labor.

[MotoSook]

gatotom:

That's exactly the kind of post I'm looking for. The plants look great! The cost will vary a bit I'm sure, but judging from your numbers, $1,000 per 0.5 acres per year over the next four years will get the primo 2 acres north of our pond planted. On the 5th year the first 1/2 acre should be producing. I can live with those numbers. Five years out...I can plan for the expensive equipment...or just sell the grapes to the Illinois operations that want it.

I figured the harvesting is the difficult part, but for the first 4 years, it's just watching them grow and taking care of the field so other weeds and such don't grow, right?

I don't expect I'll have to irrigate, but if I need to I can pull water from the pond or drill a dedicated well on that side of the property.

[MotoSook]

Originally Posted by BRPORSCHE

sangiovese. I would like some Chianti. Will trade labor.

Not sure I can do Chianti here, Tom, but you're welcome to come spend a few weeks during harvest when we get to that point....and stay for the hunting. Plenty of deer come drink from the pond and eat the fruit from the orchard

Here's what I found regarding plants:

Winter hardiness is a big factor in grape cultivar selection since some of the more widely known wine grapes such as merlot and pinot noir are not winter hardy in Illinois except in select areas. The major cultivars grown in Illinois include: Chambourcin, Seyval, Vignoles, Chardonel, Norton and Vidal. Juice and table grapes grown commercially in Illinois include Concord, Niagara and Catawba.

ETA:

Illinois winemakers use different grape varieties to produce a diversity of high-quality wines. The top six grape varietals grown in the state cover more than 75 percent of the state’s total grape acreage. Five of these grapes—Chambourcin, Seyval, Vignoles, Chardonel and Vidal Blanc—are “French Hybrids,” developed by crossing French grapes, such as the Chardonnay often grown in France and California, with native American vines. This cross-pollination results in grapes that produce excellent wine, but that are less susceptible to the effects of extreme cold—making them ideal for the Midwest’s unpredictable weather. The other grape in the top six, Norton, originates from native American vines.


Chambourcin - A late-ripening, dark blue-black grape that can produce a highly rated red wine with a reasonably full, slightly herbaceous flavor and aroma. Chambourcin grapes are usually used to produce claret or Bordeaux-style wines, but can also be used to make rosé.

Seyval – One of the most widely planted grapes east of the Rocky Mountains, the Seyval grape features aromas of grass, hay and melon.

Seyval produces food-friendly white wines that are often thought of as alternatives to Chardonnay.

Vignoles - Produces excellent white wines of many different styles, including dessert wines and both dry and semisweet varietals.

Chardonel – A hybrid of Chardonnay and Seyval vines, this full-bodied, crisp and dry grape produces European-style wines exhibiting toasty oak, ripe apple and pear flavors.

Norton – Sometimes call Cynthiana, the Norton grape produces a dark, inky red wine with flavors of plums and cherries.

[gatotom]

Sure, you can get all the info you want from the state you live in on what to grow but remember they just tell you what is a proven fact, no guts no glory.

Where I live in WA, we are the first growers in this area to grow what we grow. This is also apple capital of WA and watching growers just all grow the same is silly. Nobody makes any money because everyone has the same stuff.

Be different, step out and grow something that isn't grown in your area. It will either prosper or die. One thing I have learned about grapes is that they are hardy. Last yr we had a early freeze like in late sept. the temps were in the teens then plunging to the minus. The sangio was hit the hardest but the good rootstock pushed new stacks out of the ground even thou the plant looked dead.

Think of cost to buy rootstock at leaast 2 yrs old at about 2.50 to 4 bucks a plant, in WA we don't have to worry about phlloxera but everyplace else you do so that means the rootstock you get must be resistent to phllox which equals more expense for the rootstock.

[gatotom]

Trust me its ball breaking work to get those plants in the ground. We rented a posthole auger to drill the postholes and plant holes all in the same weekend. The soil here is river bottom which means lots of river rock, crappy soil for growing anything but grapes.

The 1K cost is not for 1/2 acre of grapes, graft it out as plants in rows 1 1/2 feet apart with 6' rows between, not alot of space for 420 plants. 8' treated posts about 5-6 bucks apiece with posts about 20 ' apart, it takes 2 posts for each end. 60 bucks to rent the auger for the weekend, about 50 bucks for 5000 ft of 12 gauge wire.

This next yr will give us a good idea what is the best plants to grow, so in the spring when we prune we will keep cutting and start our own rootstock.

[RWebb]

in Illinois you will have a time consuming hobby & fun if you like that sort of thing - not a great place to grow quality grapes tho

figure out the aspect (where the slopes face); degree of slope of your potential sites

avoid fertile soil - make the vines struggle

a soil profile will be very helpful - either drill or learn to use a small backhoe; go down 30 ft.

see if the Ag. Ext. Bureau knows anything re grape growing - it's free help (paid for with Hugh's tax dollars)

figure out the best grapes in your area

just don't expect to knock the Bordelaise on their ears...

[RWebb]

oh yeh - you use the grass next to the vines to control their growth - more grass = less water = slower growth

when they are young, you want bare dirt w/in a foot of each vine; when older let the grass keep them from getting too much water
(at least that is what one of the top vintners in Orygun does with his Pinot Noir grapes)

[MotoSook]

8' treated posts about 5-6 bucks apiece with posts about 20 ' apart, it takes 2 posts for each end. 60 bucks to rent the auger for the weekend, about 50 bucks for 5000 ft of 12 gauge wire.

The seller of our farm still has a Ford tractor stored in my barn with attachements, incl. augers. He wants $4000 for everything (plow, tiller, snow blade and augers). Might just take him up on it since the other tractor (19 HP Case) might not be up to the job of tending to vines or planting.

All great infomation, gatotom. My alma mater has some staff that might be able to help. I'll get in contact with them. There's also a vintner association in Illinois. With maybe 70+ wineyards in Illinois, I'm sure I can find some help locally.

Randy, I haven't yet taste wine made in Illinois that I like...we go to a tasting every year of Illinois wines and I always come away disappointed. The wife likes one or two, but she's into dessert wines... I don't intend to change the Illinois wine scene, but I think it'll be a fun hobby growing the grapes and experimenting with the wine. hell, over the years, I've spent more time and money landscaping the yard!

[MotoSook]

a soil profile will be very helpful - either drill or learn to use a small backhoe; go down 30 ft.

My buddies still teaching at the Geology Department at University might be able to help...heck, I'll let them make a field trip with their students to map the property...freee overnight camping, BBQ and beer. Man I loved those Geology field trips as an undergrad.

[RWebb]

perfect!

they can sleep in the barn too!

[BRPORSCHE]

Originally Posted by RWebb

perfect!

they can sleep in the barn too!

Is Souk's place the new woodstock?