Madoff tragedy - So greed is good??

Buckterrier · 12-13-2010, 03:21 AM

I just don't get it. Please explain again how it is good...

The Tragedy of Mark Madoff - Neil Weinberg - Investor Advocate - Forbes

JJ 911SC · JJ 911SC's Garage

and if there is any justice, they should not let Bernie out to attend the funeral

oldE · 12-13-2010, 04:16 AM

I think the point of the piece was to point out that many criminal activities were not planned with a clear view of the potential consequences. Many convicted felons probably thought "I'll just do this and my problems will be over."

I don't think there was any chance Bernie gave the slightest thought to the possibility his actions would drive his son to kill himself. Sort of like the intoxicated person who decides to drive himself home because he's sure he'll be OK. An hour later he is waking up in the hospital with a police officer charging him with the deaths of several innocent persons.

Maybe what keeps most of us out of trouble is a better grasp of potential consequences.

Les

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Greed is not theft. Greed is what the con men rely on to swindle people.

kaisen · 12-13-2010, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ 911SC

and if there is any justice, they should not let Bernie out to attend the funeral

That's not justice, that's inhumane

sammyg2 · 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen

That's not justice, that's inhumane

Bernie HAD the freedom to come and go as he pleased, until he was convicted of many very serious felonies that resulted in the loss of his personal freedom, including the freedom to go to funerals.

it is not inhumane, it is a consequence of his actions.
Where would it stop?
Is it inhumane for him to not be able to sleep in his own bed in his own house?
Is it inhumane that he can no longer take vacations to the cape?

We punish criminals with incarceration for two reasons:
1) to make sure they are not able to do it again,
2) to send a message to thers as a deterent.
That crap about rehabilitation is a liberal smoke-screen and BS.

Every time someone weakens the deterent, they encourage the negative activities.

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen

That's not justice, that's inhumane

Tomayto, tomahto

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Every time someone weakens the deterent, they encourage the negative activities.

Classic example: Release of Abdelbaset al-Megrahi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

KFC911 · 12-13-2010, 06:30 AM

I find Bernie to be one despicable SOB, and believe the whole family was involved (or "looked the other way") so I have NO sympathy whatsoever. That said, he's in a medium security facility I'm familiar with, where letting inmates out for funerals etc. is common practice. His request should be evaluated just like the rest (if one believes the facade of "equality" in our judicial system).

vash · vash's Garage

madoff..i dont follow the story that closely. but he must be a sociopath to screw so many people over and not lose sleep.

i wonder if he really is that broken up about his son. if i would have been the son, i would have change my last name and moved on.

LWJ · 12-13-2010, 06:37 AM

What is inhumane is the scale of his theft.

I believe that people trade time (which is limited in humans) for money. This is called work. How many lives of productivity did Madoff take? In this perspective, he is a serial killer.

Horrible what happened to his son. Bernie will suffer for the rest of his existence. I really don't care if he can attend the service or not. He bares a very significant part of the responsibility for his son's death.

Larry

kaisen · 12-13-2010, 06:40 AM

Hey look, Madoff is total scum. But he didn't perpetrate an act of violence. So the law gives him the opportunity to attend the funeral as he poses no imminent physical danger to society.

Think if it were your son.

Again, I hate Bernie Madoff and think his acts are truly evil.

On the other hand, being out in public makes him an opportune target....

john70t · 12-13-2010, 07:19 AM

Sharks need to keep moving, teeth exposed, in order to live.

The scammed privatized investors were compensated well above the $100K FIDC individual limits though, at taxpayer expense. They invested in sketchy overseas funds to dodge U.S. taxes and got burned.

Special people. Special rules.

pwd72s · 12-13-2010, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red-beard

Greed is not theft. Greed is what the con men rely on to swindle people.

well stated.

Zeke · 12-13-2010, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vash

madoff..i dont follow the story that closely. but he must be a sociopath to screw so many people over and not lose sleep.

i wonder if he really is that broken up about his son. if i would have been the son, i would have change my last name and moved on.

Or moved out. Where did he get 66 million to buy at least 3 luxury residences? Not on his trader desk salary. I think Mark Madoff was a crook like his old man. Just not the mastermind.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

It's only greed when other people do it. If you had a sure-thing investment guy making tons of money for you, you'd call him a genius. Still amazes me that most people think Social Security is a good thing, yet it's a much larger version of what Madoff is going to die in prison for. At least investing with Madoff was voluntary and did pay off for some people.

Buckterrier · 12-13-2010, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vash

if i would have been the son, i would have change my last name and moved on.

No he didn't but some in the family already have. The name will go down with the likes of Arnold.

I guess my point is the whole family, including the 2 year old son, (which is already named in lawsuits), will be affected their whole lives. And obviously he is not a crook.

So in this case greed was a good thing?

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

So in this case greed was a good thing?

No, his breaking the law was a very bad thing. My own investment adviser is a greedy bastard and that's what I want. I also want him to behave within the law. The two are not mutually exclusive.

widgeon13 · 12-13-2010, 10:59 AM

Some time ago the list of people, families and organizations he swindled was published, it was approx 150 pages (+ or - a few pages), has anyone ever considered if any of those people committed suicide because their entire life savings had been stolen from them. This man is despicable, we should do everything possible to keep him alive so he can suffer longer.

As for the family, I personally believe they were all involved and he volunteered to take the fall rather than all of them going down.

Tobra · Tobra's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by widgeon13

Some time ago the list of people, families and organizations he swindled was published, it was approx 150 pages (+ or - a few pages), has anyone ever considered if any of those people committed suicide because their entire life savings had been stolen from them. This man is despicable, we should do everything possible to keep him alive so he can suffer longer.

As for the family, I personally believe they were all involved and he volunteered to take the fall rather than all of them going down.

Yup, all guilty, no trip to the funeral for Mr Madoff. He does rest of his life in the clink, maybe 15 years, what does that work out to on a dollars per year basis?

He and his family devastated thousands and should suffer some.