F1 gets rid of team orders ban

[sammyg2]

The FIA have stripped the regulation banning team orders from their rulebook following this year's controversy in Germany.

Ferrari were fined £65,000 by race stewards at the German Grand Prix after being accused of implementing a team order.

Following coded messages over the team radio, Felipe Massa eventually ceded a potential victory to team-mate Fernando Alonso, a move that sparked outrage at the time.

After meeting with the stewards, Ferrari were deemed in breach of article 39.1 of the FIA 2010 sporting regulations that states 'team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited'.

But following today's meeting of the World Motor Sport Council in Monaco, the body has confirmed the rule has now been "deleted".

In a WMSC statement, it added: "Teams will be reminded any actions liable to bring the sport into disrepute are dealt with under article 151c of the International Sporting Code and any other relevant provisions."

Article 151c is effectively the FIA's catch-all regulation that relates to 'any fraudulent conduct, or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally'.

It was a rule that resulted in McLaren being fined almost £50million in 2007 over the 'spy-gate' saga.

The omission of the team orders regulation headlines a raft of other changes that have been made to the Sporting and Technical Regulations for 2011.

The WMSC has rubber-stamped amendments to the list of penalties stewards are permitted to apply, made revisions to driving and driver conduct, reintroduced intermediate tyres for 2011 and stipulated that gearboxes must be used for five consecutive races rather than the current four.

They have also introduced a regulation that allows race director Charlie Whiting to close the pit lane during a race for safety reasons, as well as providing a clarification on when cars can overtake the safety car.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/18227/6565947/FIA-lift-ban-on-team-orders

[Por_sha911]

Just as well. Everyone winked and nodded with a smile when it came to the "no team orders" rule. I was surprised that Massa didn't lose is job at the end of the year due to the way he blatantly moved over. He showed blatant disrespect to his leadership in the way he handled it and I figured they'd not tolerate it but couldn't do anything until the year ended.

[Zeke]

Team order: Nelson Piguet, hit the wall on lap 13 (Singapore, 2008). They won't ever ban team orders completely, so they might as well tolerate them.

[legion]

I predict Ferrari will pull even more brazen moves in the future. (Or whatever team Alonso terrorizes.)

At what point do team orders become a problem? When they tell Massa to take Hamilton out so that Alonso can win?

[chapo]

Legion, come on now. McLaren pretty much invented team rules. Renault perfected them. Take the rose glasses off.

[chapo]

In the old days it wasn't uncommon for one car to be given to the top driver if the top driver's car broke or wrecked, ala Fangio, Nuvolari, etc.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by chapo

In the old days it wasn't uncommon for one car to be given to the top driver if the top driver's car broke or wrecked, ala Fangio, Nuvolari, etc.

True, huh?

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by legion

I predict Ferrari will pull even more brazen moves in the future. (Or whatever team Alonso terrorizes.)

At what point do team orders become a problem? When they tell Massa to take Hamilton out so that Alonso can win?

"Teams will be reminded any actions liable to bring the sport into disrepute are dealt with under article 151c of the International Sporting Code and any other relevant provisions."

Article 151c is effectively the FIA's catch-all regulation that relates to 'any fraudulent conduct, or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally'.

[motion]

Just as well.... it IS a team sport, after all. Now, Ferrari can stop being the ugly red-headed stepchild of this rule.

[450knotOffice]

No kidding. I always shake my head at the people who think Ferrari is the only team that does this. News flash guys - they ALL do it (even if they say they don't).

[sammyg2]

I find it very interesting that when the term "team orders" comes up, some folks automatically think of ferrari as if they are the only team that ever did anything like that.
I concede that this year ferrari told their slower car to let their faster car past, and evidently that was a deadly sin to some folks.

but I remember another incident, than in my mind was a big deal (not like Massa letting alonso past). One that will always stick in my mind when I think of team orders:

Nelson Piquet Junior has finally given a vivid account about the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix during which he was asked to deliberately crash.

The former F1 driver earlier this week won his "Crashgate" libel case against former employers Renault. The Enstone team agreed to pay "a substantial amount of damages" to Piquet and his father after they accused the two of lying.

It perhaps gives the 25-year-old some closure on the issue and he decided to lift the lid on the scandal in an exclusive interview with The Times newspaper.

According to the Brazilian, director of engineering Pat Symonds approached him after he and team-mate Fernando Alonso had poor qualifying sessions.

"'Look, both cars are at the back of the grid,' he told me. 'We are in a situation where we are not going to get anywhere in this race unless something extraordinary happens.'" [Team boss Flavio] Briatore agreed, saying it would be "a disaster for the team" unless something extraordinary happened.

"I just sat there listening because I couldn't figure out where this was going," Piquet said. "They were both very fidgety and the situation was incredibly tense. I don't think I had said a word by this point. It was only after five minutes that Flavio made his pitch. 'Look, the only way we can benefit in any way out here is by getting a safety car on the course at the right moment,' he said.

"I just sat there, looking at them. They both reminded me of what had happened in Germany when someone had crashed just after I had pitted and I came second in the race. 'Do you want to help the team?' Flavio said. 'If you crash at the right moment, it could change everything.'"

Piquet then goes into long detail about how Briatore put him under pressure to perform and always "barked" orders before giving a detailed account of events before and during the crash.

"They wanted the safety car on lap 14," he added. "It actually felt good to agree to do something for the team after all the criticism I had taken. I did not even consider the morality of it.

"As the laps ticked by, I knew what was coming, but it was difficult to believe what I was going to do. I was almost more nervous of messing it up for the team than for my own safety.

"I was so scared, I could hardly breathe. I was straining my eyes to see the board each time I completed the circuit so I would know which lap I was on, but it was dark out there and I could hardly see a thing.

"I screamed into the radio again and again, 'What lap are we in? What lap are we in?' They confirmed the lap and I began to brace myself because I knew what I was about to do - even if I could not believe I was going to do it.

"I came around the chicane on lap 14 and I could feel my stomach tighten. I was incredibly scared, it was like a dream. I touched the rear wheel on the wall and then stepped on the throttle to crash into the other wall. I felt no pain on impact, but the adrenalin was pumping. I felt in control of the car throughout the crash."

The safety car was immediately deployed and Alonso, who made his crucial pit stop two laps earlier, went on to win the race.

All Piquet got for his "efforts" was a "tap on the back" and "thanks" from his team principal Briatore.

The Brazilian held onto his seat for the 2009 season, but was eventually dropped by Renault in the middle of the year. Not long after allegations surfaced in the media that he crashed deliberately. The FIA launched an inquiry and the rest, as they say, was history.

Piquet admits he wanted to get back at Briatore and also "apologised unreservedly" for what he did.

"If I am being honest, I think I was motivated more by anger against Flavio than by a desire for a clean conscience," he said.

"Looking back, it seems like a lifetime ago, but I know I will never fully escape from its shadow," he continued. "I apologise unreservedly for what I did. I just hope people will understand the pressures I was under. It is no excuse, but I was a deeply unhappy person. I am a stronger man today. If the question was asked again, I am sure I would have the strength to say no."

[motion]

Really incredible that he didn't consider the morality of the situation at the time. I think the blame needs to be spread around a bit on that one.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by chapo

In the old days it wasn't uncommon for one car to be given to the top driver if the top driver's car broke or wrecked, ala Fangio, Nuvolari, etc.

Here's a somewhat foggy remembrance. Please correct all the incorrect details as they appear.

Was it at a Daytona endurance race in the 70's when Gurney and co-drivers won in a GT-40. Team owner/sponsor (Ford?) wanted AJ Foyt to be in the winning car so he could have winning records in NASCAR. CART, Sprints as well as world sports car endurance racing. Foyt's own car had broken earlier but was summoned to drive a stint to qualify (replacing the regular cycled driver (?). I recall Gurney was pissed at the strategy to give Foyt more credit than he deserved - or something like that.

I apologize. I'm too lazy this morning to research and confirm all the "facts" of the incident, but it does sound good, doesn't it?

Sherwood

[sammyg2]

And how many times have we seen a car slow down to a crawl on the last lap to let their other car catch up for a group photo finish? obviously that doesn't change the outcome at all but it does go against the concept of a race AFAIK.

[motion]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

And how many times have we seen a car slow down to a crawl on the last lap to let their other car catch up for a group photo finish? obviously that doesn't change the outcome at all but it does go against the concept of a race AFAIK.

I watched Schumacher slow down right at the end of the race at Indy awhile back. He misjudged and Barichello passed him to take the win by a few feet. I felt ripped off.

[javadog]

Here you go, I fixed it:

Originally Posted by 911pcars

It was at a Daytona 24 hour race in the 1983 when Foyt, Wollek and co-drivers won in a 962. Team owner Preston Henn wanted AJ Foyt to be in the winning car so he could have more publicity. Foyt was recruited to drive, which royally pissed off Wollek, as he figured Foyt would **ck 'ol Bob's chances at winning, since AJ hadn't driven a race like that since the '67 Le Mans. Bob used the f-word on live TV when asked about Foyt, Foyt ran just fine, they won. They teamed up again in 1985.

Sherwood

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by javadog

Here you go, I fixed it:

Originally Posted by 911pcars:
It was at a Daytona 24 hour race in the 1983 when Foyt, Wollek and co-drivers won in a 962. Team owner Preston Henn wanted AJ Foyt to be in the winning car so he could have more publicity. Foyt was recruited to drive, which royally pissed off Wollek, as he figured Foyt would **ck 'ol Bob's chances at winning, since AJ hadn't driven a race like that since the '67 Le Mans. Bob used the f-word on live TV when asked about Foyt, Foyt ran just fine, they won. They teamed up again in 1985.

Ha. Thanks for the corrections. I shouldn't have made the attempt. At least I got Daytona and Foyt correct. Yes, Wollek was a fiery competitor as I recall, but you know my recollection skills. Wollek died in 2001 in Florida when hit by a car while on a bicycle training ride to prep for the Sebring 12 hr. race.

Sherwood

[Brando]

Are there any other sports where "Teamwork" is not allowed on a team?

Imagine teamwork prohibited in basketball, football, hockey, etc...

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by Brando

Are there any other sports where "Teamwork" is not allowed on a team?

Imagine teamwork prohibited in basketball, football, hockey, etc...

Are you counting certain teammates in the NBA?

Sherwood

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

And how many times have we seen a car slow down to a crawl on the last lap to let their other car catch up for a group photo finish? obviously that doesn't change the outcome at all but it does go against the concept of a race AFAIK.

Actually - it has changed the outcome. At Le Mans Ford gave their drivers' instructions to group up for the finish. They group up but do not pass each other.

Trouble was - Le Mans was based on total distance driven, as the lead car had qualified quite some distance ahead of the car behind him, it had driven less distance. The car that crossed the stripe 2nd won the race because it had started farther back, resulting in more distance traveled when it crossed the line. Because of a group photo, the final race results where switched for first an second, even though they crossed the line in the order they had been prior to the final laps.