Is the US exceptional?
 

I keep hearing about American "exceptionalism" so I looked it up. I thought it was something some radio talking head dreamed up., but the concept goes clear back to Alex de Tocqueville. I think it's dangerous to believe the US has been anointed by God to be a special nation. Maybe this idea is why our education achievement levels have dropped so far below that of other countries. Why work to be exceptional if it's been handed to you by God?

-de Toke wrote about the USA back in the 1820's when the USA was still on the come. We did become #1 after he wrote his stuff. So there is a big difference between what is classically known as American exceptional ism and the malaise that has been manifesting itself over the last 40 years The malaise that we suffer from now is the "WE HAVE IT MADE IN THE SHADE" syndrome, which means we don't have to try anymore. The GREATEST proponent of that syndrome is none other than Barrack Obama when he so boldly said, "It is a shame that a RICH NATION like American has 45 M people without HC." In other words he said, "Why we can afford it all without consequence." Well one guesses that he is finding out differently.

I think "exceptionalism" can deteriorate into "fascism" if we're not careful...

I'd only buy this argument had Obama been the one in power for the last years you identify as the "malaise" era.

Is America still great? Millions of immigrants (legal and otherwise) seem to think so. But empires rise and fall based on the individual and collective actions of those with power, regardless of political leaning.

Not sure how this relates to how exceptionalism is used now, but I have been thinking about the United States as exceptional in the context of the book "The Great Frontier" by Walter Prescott Webb. First published in 1951, it predicts some of the challenges the US will face as the "Great Frontier" closes, and the vast wealth of the US starts to constrict. It really helps put some of the challenges we face into a historical context.

America is a special nation- the most remarkable thing to happen to human civilization in recorded history. Our wealth and spirit have re-energized almost every civilization on the planet. But the factors that drove that are changing, so the future is unclear.

Synopsis of the "The Great Frontier"--

First published in 1951, "The Great Frontier" has become one of the undisputed classics of Western history, its conclusions still hotly debated by scholars but nonetheless essential and engrossing reading for anyone who wishes to understand the history and significance of this vast and often puzzling region.
The final work of pioneer Western historian Walter Prescott Webb, "The Great Frontier" represents a daring attempt to interpret the settlement of the American West in the global context of the expansion of European civilization between the fifteenth and twentieth centuries. According to Webb's "boom hypothesis," the expansion of Europe's "Great Frontier" into the Western Hemisphere energized a static society and made possible the development of such fundamental institutions of the modern era as individualism, capitalism, and political democracy. Webb contends that the closing of the global frontier at the end of the nineteenth century, with the end of easily available empty land and readily exploited natural resources, was responsible for the crises and violence of the twentieth century and boded ill for the future of the United States's treasured democracy.

"The essence of its failure was that it could not sustain unity. In its early stages its citizens, both patrician and plebeian, had a certain tradition of justice and good faith, and of the loyalty of all citizens to the law, and of the goodness of the law for all citizens; it clung to this idea of the importance of the law and of law-abidingness nearly into the first century B. C. But the unforeseen invention and development of money, the temptations and disruptions of imperial expansion, the entanglement of electoral methods, weakened and swamped this tradition by presenting old issues in new disguises under which the judgment did not recognize them, and by enabling men to be loyal to the professions of citizenship and disloyal to its spirit. The bond of the Roman people had always been a moral rather than a religious bond; their religion was sacrificial and superstitious; it embodied no such great ideas of a divine leader and of a sacred mission as Judaism was developing. As the idea of citizenship failed and faded before the new occasions, there remained no inner, that is to say no real, unity in the system at all. Every man tended more and more to do what was right in his own eyes."

From: Why The Roman Republic Failed - Outline of History - H.G. Wells (1919)

Ian

"America is a special nation- the most remarkable thing to happen to human civilization in recorded history"

This sounds like hyperbolic schoolboy talk.

[QUOTE=jyl;5730951
This sounds like hyperbolic schoolboy talk.[/QUOTE]

Call it what you will. I didn't say that Americans were special (we are), but that the discovery and settling of America (not the United States) was. Short of the Roman conquest of the known world do you know of anything in human history as exceptional?

I assume you have read the book?

+1, what Tabs said about mayonnaise.

There are many nations that would fit the description of exceptionalism, in my view. Some countries through social ideas, others through individual liberty. Maybe at one point we can put it all together and become "exceptional" as a planet.

Does not exceptionalism come through opportunity? Mayonnaise just sets in when the opportunities dry up;)

Exceptionalism is like a sandwich.
The restaurant has everything necessary to build a sandwich (opportunity), however you must have staff to build it (realization). If everyone sits at the counter and waits on the sandwich to be brought to them, but there is nobody making the sandwich, then they will all go hungry (missed opportunity due to excess mayonnaise).

America was, and still is, the land of opportunity.
People need to take advantage of the opportunities, and stop taking advantage of each other.

I agree. I think any exceptionalism we enjoy is earned every day.

The notion of American exceptionalism being bestowed on us is being pushed by Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck.
What BO said was, "I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism.” Hannity ripped him a new one for saying that.

I think he's right. I gotta read this book.

I think the US is and has been an extremely powerful and influential nation with certain political, economic, and cultural ideals that are inspiring to much of the world.

We did not invent democracy and liberty (Greeks), world superpower (Roman Empire), global trading (British Empire, lots of others), the rule of law (British and others), or many other things besides.

In general, I think self-congratulation or self-doubt about whether the US is "exceptional" is rather purposeless from a practical standpoint. It tends to embroil the mind in ideological argument, semantic debate, and backwards-looking nostalgia. Let the historians worry about that.

We should be looking forward, focused on pragmatic things. There are certain major things the US needs to do. Wringing our hands about whether we were, are, or will be "exceptional" is pointless.

AdT also said that the American form of government will prosper until the day that politicians realize that they can bribe the people with their own money. We have long since past that point and every day since, this country has become a little less special.

Generations are being taught that government can solve society's ills, when in fact, government is the root of many of those ills. Independence is being replaced with dependence. We are losing the edge that we once held in education, we are no longer the most productive nation in the world and we consume at excessive and unsustainable rates. Why? Because we are programmed to.

We are periodically fed a crisis scenario for which all of the proposed answers cost us our freedom and cripple the individual. We are watching the devolution of the great experiment that is happening because of a systematic effort to drive out the fundamental principles that made this nation exceptional.

jyl is correct. There is little value in self-congratulation or debate over whether we are, or are not, exceptional as a nation. Self analysis is pop-culture crap. We must "be" exceptional each day in our words and deeds, because each day is an opportunity to become unexceptional.

the US is often castigated for its mayonnaise, but in fact ours is just as good as the French mayonnaise in some local areas

you just need to look for the local, artisan, hand-brewed mayonnaise and yer set

so there!

some argue that the status of the US vis-a-vis the rest of the world is better compared to that of the Athenians (hegemon; leader of others) than to a classical empire, like the Romans

I disagree. Their are just too many parallels with the Roman Republic's late years to be dismissed. So if history truly does repeat itself, civil strife, external strife, internal partisan warring & an eventual savior (i.e. a dictator) will emerge.

There has not been any civilization - ever - in the history of civilizations - that did not think that they were exceptional . . . and invincible.

Ian

Which countries are above us in education achievement levels?

For those countries - do our best and brightest students go to those countries to go to college?

Why do so many of the best and brightest from other countries come to our country to get educated.

Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, Chicago, Brown, MIT, Cal Tech, Penn, Dartmouth, Duke, Berkeley, Cornell, Rice, Vanderbilt, etc. etc. etc.

Have you seen the educational (and other) accomplishments of the thousands and thousands of students who go to our top tier colleges?

What countries are we behind in that regard?

you are conflating the avg. with the top tranche

No, not really.

There are lots of excellent US colleges that aren't in the top 20 or 25. Hundreds of them, graduating hundreds of thousands of students every year. This country has more educational opportunity than any other in the world. We have, overall, the best and most prestigious colleges and universities in the world, at the top, and also the best and broadest in the middle, too.

Of course, it's just educational opportunity. It does take some hard work to earn.

yes, really

do you know what fraction of Americans even go to college? much less graduate?

No, what is the percentage?

And what countries are higher?

(And do we need a higher percentage? What is the optimal %? 100%?)

It seems to me that America is fairly unique in the "everyone needs to go to college" attitude. From what I recall in European and Japanese educational systems, historically they don't really believe that and tend to "separate the wheat from the chaff" fairly early on (13 or 14 years old).

Those are academically inclined (determined by evil and undoubtedly culturally and economically biased standardized testing) get on the university track, those that aren't, well, sayonara/auf weidesen. No university for you.

Finally, even if America has a significantly lower % of students who go to college and/or graduate, whose fault is that? Why is the "educational system" always automatically blamed?

He spreads it on thick, verrry thick.

Call it sour grapes,

but we're now in a stew;

we're in a pickle.

What a fine kettle of fish.

And this is no time to flounder.

We've ignored the stew

and kept it on the back burner,

while the pot calls the kettle black.

We have fallen behind.

And, we have fallen behinds,

due, in large part,

to excess mayonnaise.

So now we have to

play ketchup.

Or we are toast.

I can see a LOT of money went into our educational system so that you would be capable of producing that...

The US higher education system is excellent. As you go up to graduate, doctoral, post-doc, research, etc it is even better.

The US elementary and high school system, as a whole, is average/mediocre - based on global rankings. But it is very uneven - a lot of it is top notch, a lot of it is very bad, it is all over the board.

I'm getting exceptionally hungry

Less than 30% of US kids graduate from a 4-year college.

Anyone who thinks that US colleges have been turning out well-schooled Americans over the past 20 years has not read as many resumes and cover letters as I have.

American exceptionalism was based on optimism about building a better country and the drive to take it there. In any mature society, some begin to think that sliding down the right birth canal --in and of itself -- makes them special and deserving. Many of those stop trying to improve themselves and their neighborhood/state/country/world. When the latter becomes the majority, it's the end of "exceptionalism." That the US has crossed that tipping point is pretty much beyond debate. Whether we can rediscover our purpose as a nation is in question.

Maybe time to throw out the mayonnaise and grab the mustard.

Relax, every country thinks they are exceptional. Australia think they are exceptionally exceptional.

at least you guys have part of ocean around you to ward off the Aussies

here in Orygun, 33 million furriners can just drive over the state line

I hear they have been dressing up as hippes and sneaking in unnoticed - cheeky bastards.

From an article in a prague newspaper
 

“The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president.

"The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America . Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince.

"The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president.”

It is sometimes enlightening to read and hear how others in the world outside the U.S. view us and our "leaders". I, unfortunately, find myself most in tune with the thoughts shared in this brief comment from the Czech columnist.

Is the US an exceptional nation?
Bill O'Reilly wants to know.

Go to his website and vote in the poll... located on the right, top 1/3rd of the page.
Bill O'Reilly Official Home On The Web

Hmmm.... I thought "exceptional" meant that it is better than what others have.

Americans have no CLUE what poverty really is. I think we are exceptional in that regard.
Americans have the RIGHT to speak against the government without fear of reprisals. How is that going in Libya?
Is America exceptional because God made it that way ? HELL no. We can't even agree who, or what God IS.

Do we do everything right? Not even close. We still have people that think America is a Democracy, instead of a Federally Represented Republic.

Our little "Experiment" has been tried before, and usually lasts about 200 years. It takes the populace about that long to realize that they can use their vote to make the government steal from earning class, and give it to them without working for it.

So yeah, The USA is kinda screwed up, But I still don't want to live any where else.

America is exceptional in that she seems to be able to borrow against her future indefinitely.

Show of hands, everyone who doesn't think the US is exceptional?
OK everyone with their hands up, get the hell out.

The US became exceptional because of it's people. It's innovative, aggressive, "can do" attitude, the attitude that we can do it better that anyone else through hard work, creative thought, and strong work ethic.

We proved just that in WWII and we've been proving it ever since, DESPITE the obvious attempts from the left to tear down this great country.

That's a very romanticized, simplistic view of history and the present, but it's a popular one.
The US was exceptional for many reasons. 250 years ago there were 4 million square miles of resources that could be had virtually free. The Europeans who came here to settle did not believe in the divine right of royalty - every man had the right of ownership of personal property. They adopted a more or less representative type of government. It took both unimaginable wealth for the taking, personal property rights, and representative government to make the US exceptional.
As the population grows and the free wealth is used up, as we need to do more with less and become more like the old world, we are learning just how "exceptional" we really are.

After WWII we, the AMERICAN people payed out tons of our hard earned $$$ to rebuild and teach the Japanese how to turn their country into a manufacturing based economy. We occupied them so that they didn't need to have as large and powerful army.

We did the same for Germany. Our tax dollars got spent protecting Western Europe from the Soviet hoard.

Guess what, Western Europe didn't need to spend 25% of their economy protecting it's backside. The spent their saving on Health care, public transportation on other social goodness.

This was paid for by our government via us being their fall-back army.

Right now Korea is very prosperous. Well right now how many US soldiers are stationed in Korea? Who is paying for this? Where else do we have soldiers, helping other countries?

It used to be said "that the Business of America is Business."

It used to be said "so goes G.M. so goes America"

We need to look at our past to build our future.

We need to look at the Marshall plan:Marshall Plan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What worked in this we need to implement here! What failed in this we need to be wary of and avoid.

Wow... I can't remember the last time I read something and agreed so strongly!