xmas family drama

[bivenator]

So my BIL and his wife divorced 3 yrs ago. They have an adopted daughter who is 8 y/o. BIL and ex have kept things pretty amiable. They live near each other and he see his daughter thru the week and on weekends as well. He has a girlfriend and they have gotten pretty serious and will probably marry in the next year or so.
Each of the previous family xmas gatherings since the divorce have been attended by both the Ex and the BIL, as well as her parents. There was some friction evident but they all did pretty well in remaining civil. This year the new GF was in attendence as well.
The BIL and GF were way over the top affectionate IMHO, tonsil hockey at the dining table sorta stuff isn't going to make anyone feel comfortable. Ex wife gets drunk and fortunately doesn't cause too much of a scene and leaves early. Whew.
So the question that lead to the discussion with my wife was, Is it crucial/beneficial for the divorced parents to continue to spend xmas together? Ostensibly this is done for the benefit of the child but neither parent was particularly involved with the girl during the evening. Each had thier own agenda IMHO and the child was subjected to another xmas of having her divorced parents still clinging to the notion that everything can be normal. IMHO this is confusing for the kid.
My divorce 18 years ago was bitter and I would never be caught dead in the same room with my ex and the in-laws at xmas or any other time. Perhaps I am viewing this thru my experience and it has jaded me.
IMHO when the divorce is done, and the parents are seperated then a civil relationship with a true focus of what is in the best interest of the child is needed. Not a dog and pony show.
Thanks for reading.

[legion]

Inviting the Ex and her parents is weird. Them actually showing up is weirder.

The BIL trying to make the Ex jealous is understandable and predictable, but still juvenile.

The Ex leaving early was as graceful as she could have been, given the two things above.

And the poor little girl in the middle who seems to be ignored except in her value in hurting the other parent is the real victim.

[M.D. Holloway]

Bad scene but a year is a long time and many things change. From experience, any thoughts you have about your BIL, his Ex and his GF and their child should be kept between your ears. It has been my personal experience that while your wife will and should unload both barrels concerning her brother you should remain mute. Nothing good can ever come from providing your two cents to your wife concerning her family. If she really presses you just tell her "Sweetheart, I feel bad that you have been put in such a tough situation. I agree with you."

[bivenator]

Sage advice Lubey. Yes legion, I find it strange that the in-laws want to continue to come around. I expect after this, things may change.

[Oh Haha]

+1 on Mike's advice.


We have a similar situation with my BIL and his ex. The kids came to Grandma's for the party but no ex. (She knows she is not welcome at our home.)

I'm no prude but making out or whatever they did was totally wrong, given the place/time.

Remember, the kids see EVERYTHING and it can have a negative influence on them.

[M.D. Holloway]

(and get the BIL aside and have him spill the dirt to you about the ex and all the dirty sex they had!)

[bivenator]

Thats funny lube, cause he is very chatty about his sex life with the ex and current GF. Both of which I have absolutely no interest in hearing about.
People talking about their sexual experiences is as relevent to me as the guy at the boat ramp talking about how great the fishing was yesterday.

[M.D. Holloway]

true dat! (unless she be super freaky, dats gotta be worf sump'n?)

[Laneco]

I'm not sure how old the child was when adopted, or if the child knows they are adopted, but that figures into this significantly.

If a child is aware they are adopted, I think it is particularly important to demonstrate that good or bad, divorced or married, a family is permanent. People you love do not simply drift away or become shunned due to divorce. They are family, just like the adopted child.

I do not envy your position. But you gotta stick this one out.

angela

[bivenator]

The girl was about 2 when adopted and she is chinese, so I suspect she knows. I am glad you chimed in Angela. I have always enjoyed your perspective.
I can understand the idea that it good to present that the family is permanent, however this contradicts the reality that the kid is facing. Its not permanent, as evidenced by the divorce. The love that the parents feel for the child should be shown endlessly but IMHO the maintaining of the appearance of family can give the kid false hope.

[rcecale]

So...the BIL's new girlfriend...how do HER feet smell?

Randy

[red-beard]

Yeah, did your older daughter's feet cause the stink in the room...

[DanielDudley]

On the drama scale, this is about a 2.

Consider yourself lucky. And remember, serious infatuation is a form of insanity that seems sane when you are in it.

[Laneco]

Originally Posted by bivenator

The girl was about 2 when adopted and she is chinese, so I suspect she knows. I am glad you chimed in Angela. I have always enjoyed your perspective.
I can understand the idea that it good to present that the family is permanent, however this contradicts the reality that the kid is facing. Its not permanent, as evidenced by the divorce. The love that the parents feel for the child should be shown endlessly but IMHO the maintaining of the appearance of family can give the kid false hope.

Just no winning with relatives, is there? Might be time to start thinking about splitting the holiday up a bit. We do that in our family. Christmas Eve is spent with my side of the family. Christmas morning is spent with Steve's side - all done by about 11a.m. Rest of the day belongs to the people who live under this roof. There are so many silly behaviors and fractured marriages in the group that it really is better to keep them apart. Surprisingly good behavior when seperated, absolutely intolerable together.

As far as the tonsil-hockey couple goes, it's been my experience that when the behavior is THAT demonstrative, the relationship is usually short. If you do see them again and the same behavior exhibits, maybe you should bring an air horn! At least a squirt gun.

angela

[jhynesrockmtn]

I've dealt with this, sort of. This was my 3rd xmas since my divorce. My kids are older (18 and 20). We've had a very civil and good post divorce relationship and spend time together with the kids at birthdays, graduation, etc. I saw her Dad during the holidays, she came to dinner with my Mom the other night.

I want the kids to understand we are still a family in some ways but don't want to set the expectation we'll spend every holiday together. My ex has had a rough time with some bad financial decisions and loser boyfriends. I tend to still be a source of advice and support but no $'s. It's tough and we were together for over 20 years.

Your BIL sounds immature at best. I put nothing ahead of my kids welfare and no PDA around them with my GF other than a smooch and hand holding, etc. Agree with others though that this is something to stay out of. Poor kid, being adopted is tough enough (I am) and this kind of behavior just adds insult to injury.

[Jeff Alton]

Why do the parents need to be together at Christmas?? She can see each of them seperately during the day. They do not need to pretend to be something they are not every other day of the year.....

The parents should never speak ill about each other in front of the daughter, and should always attempt to have the same rules/morals and parenting techniques, but they do not need to be in attendance at a christmas dinner together.

Cheers

[nostatic]

The tonsil hockey is BS - he should be smacked around for that and told to get out of high school.

No direct advice, just anecdotal evidence. I don't "spend" the holidays with my son and my ex, though I do go over for a brief visit. We also do his b-day together depending on the situation - this year we took him and a bunch of friends bowling. I specifically do not bring my g/f of 3+ years to these as I don't want to create any friction. My g/f does however stay over on some nights that I have my son so he's used to having her as part of our family - it is just separate from his mom and that aspect of "family."

No easy answers on how to navigate these things. I didn't have my g/f spend the night until we'd been together for almost 2 years though as I wanted to make sure that things were cool with my son in that regard. But the tonsil hockey in public is just stupid...

[TechnoViking]

I am a divorced father of two young kids adopted from Korea.

I get along great with the ex, but let's not get carried away here. There is absolutely no need whatsoever to have a joint Christmas with all the family from both sides to show the kids they have a family that isn't going to leave them. That's more like a charade, and the kids are smart enough to tell something is not right.

We alternate all major holidays and she does Christmas eve, and I do Christmas day. The kids know they have two happy parents and there is no weird drama during the holidays.

The only exception we make is for the kids' birthdays. We do parties with all their friends from daycare/school, mom and dad, and grandparents if they want to come. The parties are on neutral ground (like a kids play place), during the day (no drinking) and they have a set start and stop time.

We all get along fine but, then again, we are conscious to set up an environment where it's easy to get along. As opposed to setting up a drunk-fest where it's a matter of time before all hell breaks lose.

And the macking with the GF at dinner is trailer-trash behavior BTW, kids or no kids. Time to be an adult.