Sorry, that's not the car I was thinking about.
Maybe a Suzuki? A jelly bean sort of thing with a two passenger cab and a trunk with four wheel drive.

I've been trying to find a pic, but I think I'm blocking the true horror of the unfortunate little beast.

Les

Suzuki X90?

http://1.photos2.ebizautos.com/used-...4610-1-640.jpg

If so, yeah, pretty terrible. :eek:

The 1972-1973 911 RS was just under 2000 pounds. That was a production lightweight, street legal in Europe. I guess that might be the only example.

Going to the opposite end, a loaded 997TT Cab Tip can break 3,800 pounds. So from the lightest old example to the heaviest modern example you have a 1,800+ pound spread. That's like adding 90% more weight to a 1972 911RS.

That's like saying when you met your wife she was 110 pounds and now she's pushing 210....

Yeah, now she's got dual airbags, but is that progress?

:D

Something tells me that this thread has taken a turn that he did not intend.

A '73 Carrera RS touring, (the street model), was more like 2600+ pounds. Race cars don't count, everyone's race cars are a lot lighter, including a new GT3 cup car, etc..

911s were always considered heavy for their day. A late '60s/early 1970s 911 was 2500+ lbs., (depending on configuration and equipment), at a time when Alfas, MGs and Triumphs were around 2k lbs. or less. Their excess weight was almost always mentioned in road tests back then. Of course they always performed like a bullet at the track, just like today but the comments were along the lines of, "imagine if it was a couple hundred pounds lighter", etc...

I used to frequently make this argument on the tech board, their is a lot of revisionist history written these days by early 911 fans who don't like the new cars, (or complain about theie weight). A 1969 911S could be ordered with power windows, A/C that didn't work for schit but weighed a ton, a sunroof and an automatic transmission. (Sportomatic). And plenty were ordered that way by the same hairdressers that buy new Boxsters w/ tips that never go over 3500 rpm in the life of the car.

They were not light cars by any stretch unless you were willing to hang on to them for 30 or 40 years and compare them to the "progress" made. Early 356s were light cars. Later 356s, (like Seahawk's 356B T6), were/are 2000# cars. They were very luxurious sports cars for their time that cleaned-up at the track in racing trim. EXACTLY like today. Absolutely nothing has changed. New 997 coupes are not heavy at all by 2010 car standards, considering the safety and technology in them plus luxury equipment. Forget 997tt auto shift cabriolets, that's obviously not their most sporting offering. It's a car that will still post mind-blowing performance numbers, though. It's an amazing company. :cool:

Funny thing about the *2 Challengers* picture is that the original Challenger was considered hugely overweight and bloated at the time. Many people and auto journalists refused to categorize it as a "Pony car". They were also unbelievable POS cars with parts falling off as you pulled out of the dealership in it new.

Now it's the slimfest model next to the new one...amazing what a little rose-colored perspective and some revisionist history can do.

You're right. Basing the original e-body (Challenger, Barracuda) on the intermediate b-body (Charger, Roadrunner) did make them very wide and heavy in the pony car segment. And yes, quality-control was a foreign language to Chrysler in that era.

Imagine forty years into the future when pictures of the slight 2010 Challenger vs. the tubby 2050 Challenger debut! ;)

Thread hi-jack: The 1971 Charger and Roadrunner were pretty spectacular looking cars!

http://www.nofearmotorsports.com/images/ACFD3D.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_dKocMO0m8l...01971%20RT.jpg

I am afraid that is indeed the ugly thing that I was doing my best to forget.

Speeder, you hit the nail on the head regarding the Challenger. That car that looks so svelte alongside its newer namesake was considered by many to be too big for the 'Pony car' market.

I don't see this trend in Europe, as fuel is more expensive, many streets are narrow and garages (or any parking) are tight. Different horses for different courses, I suppose.

It's not just cars either. Does anyone else recall an article in one of the three mainline auto mags from about a decade back comparing a mid-50s Ford pick up with the current Ranger? The wheelbases, tracks and weights were very close. But now the Ranger is considered a compact truck and the F-150 casts a big shadow (as does every other pick-up out there)
I for one don't want to haul all that weight around, punching an over-sized hole in the air.
Oh well, some folks might be compensating with their 'equipment'.

Have fun, All
Les

Actually, the quoted weight was 960 kilos, which is a little over 2100 pounds. I don't know if that's for the strippo homolgation version, or the 'lightweight" version. In either case, there was somthing like forty pound between them so I don't think the RS ever dipped under 2070 pounds, in any form. The touring version was a couple hundred pounds heavier than the lightweight.

JR

Question:
How is continually posting pictures of a moostang any different than someone continually posting pictures of motocross bicycles, cats, satellite dishes, etc?

Lots of folks here are into one thing or another that I'm not interested in, but so what?

Hey, if you can make those things go away too, you'd be my new hero.

While you're at it, also lose the large cranes, hovercraft, tractors...

JR

I'm into Bosozoku...

http://www.steve-z.com/images/funny/whaletail.jpg

http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bl.../IMG_32631.jpg

http://wfn.typepad.com/.a/6a0105364c...40ab970c-800wi

http://www.epicjag.no/wp-content/upl...sideburns1.jpg

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/...s/bosozoku.jpg

;)

Sammy,

I suspect no one here gets bent out of shape or annoyed by people enjoying the car of their choice.

But take a look at the title of this thread. It started as a jibe at 944 owners.
I think what several of us find objectionable is a tendency of some people to promote their choices/preferences by denigrating others choices.

It is rude and I try not to do it much. I wish others might strive to follow the same guidelines. I think this thread has gone the way it has because others on this board feel the same way about people who are frequently rude.

As I said above, I respect the Mustang. I don't admire it. The fact it is frequently held up as superior in some ways to a car that was designed over 30 years ago is a poor way to have fun, don't you?

All the best
Les

I love it!

But let's keep the food, right?

Some of it...

JR

True. The problem is not that Paul loves his Mustang. Most people here are car fans - not just Porsche fans. The problem is that Paul has taken to insulting Porsche owners personally - both in general, and individually. This is why I, and many others, get annoyed. It's rude. Why get personal? It's unnecessary. I'm not sure why Paul has morphed into a hater on this board over the past few years. He's like a one man wrecking crew.

I'm not sure what's accurate. I've read many different specs over the years. Someone here on the board could 'weigh in' with definitive proof.

Either way, my point is still the same. They were once much, much lighter than they are today. True of the beloved 911, true of Mustangs, true of most cars.

Porsche 911 - Modern Racer - Modern Classics
"Critics will debate this assertion for months on end, but arguably the greatest 911 of them all was the Carrera 911 RS of 1972-1973. Only a little over 1,500 of these specials were produced, but they have created a saga that still lives 25 years later.

With the flat-six bored out to 2.7-liters, the Carrera RS offered 210 horsepower at 5100 rpm, which was fed through a close-ratio five-speed gearbox to the rear wheels. With the RS body lightened from the standard 911 curb weight of 2,200 pounds to under 2,000, this lightweight rocket could accelerate from zero to 60 miles per hour in just 5.6 seconds. Top speed, aided by the odd Burzel rear spoiler, was 150 miles per hour.

The Carrera 911 RS, in nearly streetable form, won the 1973 24 Hours of Daytona. It was just one of hundreds of memorable racing victories for the 911, part of a tradition that continues to this day and shows no signs of slowing down."

I'm using what Porsche quoted and also what is given in the Carrera RS book by Gruber/Konradsheim. It jives with what I have seen in contemporary road tests of the car.

There's no question that cars have gained weight. I just think that it's around 20%, in the case of the 911. That's taking a typical weight for an early car that was optioned out roughly equivalent to what you get today. If you think about it, most of what was previously optional is now standard.

The cars are larger, safer, infinitely more complicated.... I'm wrestling with the decision of whether or not to sell off a couple of my older cars and buy a newer 911, maybe a GT3. The possibility has its merits...

JR