More than 95% of the population are behind you guys 100%... Including me.

You lost me about here and I will give you a specific example of why. When my wife was a little kid, they lived in a trailer in a particularly shady area of North Houston, saving money to buy a house. One night, a Mexican man broke into the house, because you could get a very good price for a healthy white baby. My father in law shot him in the face as he was lifting my brother in law out of the crib. The police came, did not arrest him. They had enough to purchase the property where they now live, out in the country, shortly after that. They were living on PB&J and macaroni and cheese to save money, but they made it out of there. I would say there are a certain percentage of people in every bad neighborhood who finally get out.

Guy I knew who was at UCSF med school when I was in Podiatry school told me about sleeping in the cast iron bathtub every night with his sister growing up in East LA in case there was a driveby. He got out, and he got his family out.

Point is, some people live in sketchy hoods because that is all they can afford at the time, not all of them are that into living there.

I'm not commenting on the shooting because I don't know all the facts, and making a judgement based only on what the media has put out would be ... .well that would just be stoopid.
To those who automatically knee-jerk against anything to do with LE, why do you suppose they got the warrant in the first place? Maybe they had nothing better to do than to raid a random house where the people who lived there did absolutely nothing wrong?

I've never had cops break down my door, but I've never allowed meth to be in my home either.
I've seen what that sheet does to people. I used to do volunteer work trying to help meth and coke heads, eventually I learned that they usually cannot be helped.

Same here.

I know a detective personally. The detective told me more than 95% of the "crimes" they investigate are criminals doing things to other criminals.

A recent case... A drug dealer was beaten up and robbed in his house were he had marijuana growing in the back yard.
To avoid incriminating himself further he had a lawyer with him when he was giving his statement about the assault to the Police... I find it kind of hard to feel sympathy for this victim.

Silverwhaletail;

First of all I have a lot of respect for the LE's that put their life on the line every day. But you didn't sign up to catch the bad guys? I vote yes for every measure that keeps them locked up longer or executed, I vote for police fire and schools. You signed up to be a cop, soldiers and marines signed up for the education and collage money right? not to go to Iraq and Afghanistan and actually do their job.

Do cops even think about a scared home owner trying to protect himself and his family with whatever he can get his hands on before busting into his house with a no knock? What did you expect? Give the guy a chance to realize it is the cops and drop the club. The courts are set up to let the perp go if there is reasonable doubt, but we can kill them on the street?

He said re-catch bad guys.

And +100.

To me.....it looks like a training video where the shooter failed.

I notice there was no "call the bus" comments and that the videographer was really close to the forefront.....looked like they anticipated a problem and needed a CYA documentation.

No knock, night time warrant implies that the cops were not dealing with just a pot smoker. The cops shouted "police" and "warrant" several times as they entered. Blair came out of a back room and advanced into the living room holding a golf club up in the air, like he intended to use it. The shooter made a split second decision to shoot, which, in hindsight, was probably the wrong decision.

I sure don't know how some of you can ascribe bad motive to the shooter based upon what we know. He was doing his job. The fault, if any, lies with a policy of serving no-knock warrants for drug dealers, which places cops in a situation where things can go real bad real quick.

Definitely. No knock warrants should be reserved for criminals who present an imminent danger to the public. Period.

cops endlessly claim a great danger to themselfs but in reality the greatest danger is to the citizen from the cops
the FBI keeps a exact count of the very very few cops killed on the job
BUT NOBODY COUNTS THE CITIZENS KILLED BY COPS and that is a far far greater number
they doNOT protect and serve anyone BUT THEM SELFS that is clearly shown by their training and tactic's extreme value is put on cop's rights and zero thought give to citizen's rights in the citizen's home that is being invaded

and cops know they will seldom be tried even, let alone convicted for bad shootings
so the system is set up to kill citizens and excuse the cops

I guess ultimately it boils down to......if you want to smoke weed and do meth and hang with dealers, then you are putting yourself at risk.

ya know after reading some of these..................its real damn evident most of YOU havent the vaguest concept of the law here.


1st and foremost NOBODY has the right to advance upon anybody in a" threatening" manner. with a weapon or not. threatening is the operative buzzword here. learn it live it KNOW IT! with the exception of the cops and they must announce themselves as they did.


2nd the guy DID ADVANCE in a threatening manner. WITH A WEAPON!


3rd if the guy came out yelling and advancing with just his bare fists, that is STILL THREATENING!

4th utah has even looser gun laws than airy-zoney. and i will bet my p-car their ccw classes teach that in the event of an attack upon oneself and YOU feel your life is threatened, and YOU ARE IN FEAR (afeared) of yer life...................YOU MAY USE DEADLY FORCE TO THWART THE ATTACK even if the person does NOT have a weapon in their hands. so in other words, i come out of my house yelling and screaming and advancing upon you stating im a gonna kick yer azz cuz yer dawg poo'd on my lawn...............and i press the attack..................YOU CAN LEGALLY SHOOT TO KILL, to thwart the attack!


5th he advanced upon officer in a threatening manner WITH A WEAPON and a freeking 9 iron IS A WEAPON when it hits you on the head numerous times!

6th if i was this guy, and heard the cops yelling whatever they yelled possibly "we have a warrant,get on the ground" "we have a warrant,lie down on the ground" or whatever the hell they stated.....................I WOULD COMPLY FASTER THAN SNOT even if i was the VIRGIN MARY or THE POPE!

7th if ya havent figured it out YET..............well suffice it to say making ANY BRASH SUDDEN MOVES around a cop is just plain bad ju-ju! this guy WAS ADVANCING, WAS THREATENING, AND HAD A GAWD DAMN WEAPON!



and that kiddies preeeeety much scores very high on the "justifiable homicide" score sheet IN FAVOR OF THE COP weather you like it or not.



do i think it was right? well on the "big drug bust sheet" for the cops , .25 oz. of stoopid azz weed, sure as hell doesnt win them any brownie points and a "F" in playing well with others and deportment.



scrounging up a vial with "possible" meth residue, doesnt win any points either. and you can bet yer azz they TORE that place apart to find any quanity to justify their actions. had it been a pound...............well then they would be in the clear and all would be justified.

with home invasions on the rise nationwide, hell the cops GOTS TO REALIZE EVERYONE sleeps with a gun or (2) or (3)!



come in my house without announcing a warrant at night you will :


1) see a blinding white flash from my HK UTL light attached to my :(pick one and only one-my pick actually-yer life).........


a) hk M-1 12 gauge

b) hk/benelli M-2 12 gauge

c) rem 870 vang comped 12 gauge

d) hk robar 9mm compact

e) hk compact tactical .45

all with either a streamlight or HK UTL attached

f) for you will BE FEEKED EL PERMANENTE FOR-EVAR!




and its a good lesson to all that playing with coke meth heroin can get you DEAD REAL DAMN FAST!:mad::D:eek:SmileWavy

First and foremost, kick in my door and be met with deadly force.
Too many mistakes get made during surveillance, misreading addresses, killing family pets, etc. Really tired of that "life on the line everyday" BS. So are my older cop buddies. They just roll their eyes at the young, "high and tight", paramillitary types. But, it's a copper brotherhood, so nobody does much until something goes bad.
It's out of control.

No knock warrants should only be issued when there is CLEAR evidence that there are deadly weapons or children in danger on the premises.

The SWAT guys just wanted to exercise their toys and uniforms. As such, they managed to convince a Judge to issue that warrant and got a citizen killed as a result. The Judge is as negligent as the guy who drew up the affidavit and the guy who pulled the trigger w/o hesitation.

I'm betting if one could read minds, the trigger guy was thinking....o fuch, o fuch, o fuch.....

personally i am surprised as hell they didnt PLANT any substance to cover their azz'z!



this is VERY COMMON when they get the wrong address and break down the door to an innocent neighbor.



"A-HEM sorry about that. mind if we play through?"

It's time to end the madness.

There have been several marijuana shows on cable channels lately. I guess it's Hollywood's way of pushing for legalization.

I've watched a couple and the thing that really stands out are the law enforcement people they interview. Everyone of them talks about how crime and drug use will go up with legalization. Forget the fact that every time legalization of drugs or alcohol has occurred crime has gone down, way down, and drug use has gone up very little.

I look at it like alcohol. It's legal but the majority of the population either doesn't like it or only likes it in small quantities. I expect the same for currently illegal drugs. The vast majority of people have no desire to use them, but the vast majority is stuck with paying for the drug war and the prisons to hold those captured in the war.

So tired of wasting resources on this drug thing.

In defense of the police on site....That video was shot with a wide angle lens.
The suspect is a lot closer to the police officer in front than he appears in the video.

Different officers yelled "search warrant" many times before entering the property.

What was that guy thinking? ...

I love the part where the cops shoot him three times, he falls on his back dead, and a cop yells, "Get on the ground!" :rolleyes:

He looked liked he was across the room, so from the door to the opposite wall was what? 10-12 feet? That's a hell of a golf club.

there have been quite a few officer involved shootings this last year or so, in utah.

10-12 feet can be crossed by an angry person in less than a second. A second is a long time in such a situations.

That room is small... By the time the cop got in the door he was about 6 or 7 feet away from the suspect. (I'm not even sure what to call him... How about victim?)
The wide angle lens is deceptive. If you were standing in that room you'd see what I mean.

So how long will it be b4 home invaders/burgulars yell "warrant!" before they try to bust through the door?

i think there have been instances already.

If you repeatedly, obsessively, practice drawing, acquiring and firing a sidearm you may eventually get good enough to do it in about the same amount of time that it takes the average person to cover 20 feet.

So average stride is 2-3 ft, plus 2 feet of arm reach and another 2 feet of club and that 10-12 feet gets covered pretty damn quick.

Gun was drawn and in position.

You can't judge that cops actions based on that video alone. You have to go to the house and stand in that room.
You also have to talk to the cops and the other people who were there.

The cop that pulled the trigger saw someone carrying an object in a threatening manner that reflected light.
It could have been a sword (most likely) or the barrel of a stainless steel shotgun (Less likely).

Either way he perceived it as a weapon and made a decision to fire while he was shouting the word "FREEZE".
The way he said the word FREEZE is important ~~~

The cop didn't say it clearly because IMHO he was assessing the situation and making a decision to fire or not to fire while he was trying to say it.

of course it was. Standard practice when entering a room.

Talking to the monkey.

If defending the Police makes me a Monkey then I'm happy to wear that tag.

Self-centered much?

Always have been ;)

Touche` :)

Dan

I'm an ex "Public Servant"... That's all I'm prepared to admit to online.

So yes... I'm biased towards the cops. I'm not condoning what happening.
I don't have enough information about the shooting to do that.

I'm just trying to present and fair assessment of what happened based on that video alone.
It looks horrible. Damning for the police involved but these are the good guys. They're on our side. I wold hope most people here agree with me.
Meanwhile they should learn from the event and the next time they're in a similar situation do things better.

Like... Give the guy time to Freeze when they tell him to. :(

He meant stomachmonkey, the one who was talking about how long it takes to draw a weapon.

I bet I could get 3 or 4 shots off in the time it would take him to cross that distance, without any training at all.

I like how he told him to get on the ground after her was probably already dead.

This is utterly unacceptable.

It may be that they are supposed to be on my side. With them doing stuff like this, more and more, there is no way I am on their side

Less than six seconds from breach to first shot fired. From my perspective, annunciation of intent to serve the warrant was not very clear. The shooter did not finish his "get on the ground" command, and did not stop his advance. You're right. There was no time to comply with the command.
For reference, I'm an active IDPA/IPSC bullseye shooter and have done work on our local PD PRISim system, so I've run every scenario in the library multiple times. (especially when I get shot. They have ShootBack). The decisions you must make are tough, even in a protected environment. It's not an easy thing to do, but this seemed poorly executed at the cost of a human life, for a little dope that's legal in some states...
For the guys that say "associate with dopers and pay the price", it could be your next door neighbor that they meant to serve the warrant to. As I stated earlier, I've got some copper friends (one second in command in my town, about to retire) and drinking buddies that aren't happy with the way things are headed.

Six seconds elapsed from the first time one of them yelled anything about a warrant or police until the first shot was fired. They were still outside, with a closed door between them and their victim, for five of those seconds. The victim was never given any chance whatsoever to "freeze", as the murdering officer was already firing before he even fully enunciated the word. The victim was not advancing by then - he had simply appeared at the end of the hallway with his golf club raised, as I'm sure most folks would do under similar circumstances. So, noise and commotion outside the house for five seconds, one second between front door kicked in and bewildered resident murdered by trigger happy coward, firing from the front door to the hallway, never having given his victim any chance whatsoever to figure out just what the hell was going on, much less comply with any orders. Murderous, cowardly scum hiding behind a badge and some thin fukking blue line. Right here in America. Who woulda thunk?

i just watched the video. that was murder. pure and simple.

how is it that we think that knocking down someone's door in the middle of the night, without warning, is not illegal search and seizure? i am pretty sure that if that were my house, i would have come out firing, thinking that my house was being invaded by thieves and murderers.

Sir, you "REALLY" need to find another line of work before its too late...for you...or someone else...