Whaletail has a very valid point. in MY town, the people in the high-crime neighborhoods are unwilling to have anything to do with the 'taking back' of thier homes. They won't report crimes, won't assist in the prosecution of the perpetrators, and generally contribute to the loss of their own personal safety.

I don't believe it...we actually agree on something...

I have to agree with Mr. Scoe. silverwhaletail, did you forget about thing you swore to uphold and defend? I seriously hope you are not in a position to set policy if that is how you feel about your line of work. Usually a person's feelings about their line of work directly effect their performance and demeanor on the job.

Back on-topic... I certainly hope as the family pursues a case they can get the murderer behind bars. Unfortunately, it seems that when an event like this unfolds, the wagons get circled. The worst I've seen (or read of) yet is the person responsible for the bad shoot gets fired and maybe community service. I guess the line of duty comes with perks all around...

Valid point my a$$. Its all economics... if you don't own the property where you live its not the same. Renting is not owning. Why would you want to "take back" something that you don't own? Lets get into the real discussion about gentrification and the other B.S. thats going on here...

Who said rent vs. own? That's immaterial. It's not property. It's safety. It's community. That's not what this topic is about, but you knew that.
You're simply a baiter.
A very good baiter....

How is vested ownership in an area irrelevant? thats what community is all about. I wonder how many people in these high crime areas rent vs. own. People who share a common economic interest form a community. One with less crime because you have a stake in the outcome. Don't try to diminish the importance of ownership by simply calling it bating...

Really not hijacking this thread. I've seen what you do.
A really, really good baiter.

What?...present a logical counterpoint...

I would go so far as to say a master;)

Thanks. :D

someone had to do it

Come on tobra... you said it yourself... the people who live in "these" areas don't have a choice. COMMUNITY: a group of people with shared interests, common ownership,private residences,and agreement to goals...

Ok dan...did I make you use this word?... I just want you to think...think about the definition of the word honestly...

Thanks, Dicks. This thread almost had . . . you know . . . a reasonable discussion from two vastly different viewpoints about a difficult topic.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295504070.gif

The tragedy here is that the whole event should not have happened.

So who's to blame? It's easy to blame the police but I would question why a warrant was granted in the first place.

IMO, the pelican "community" along with logic and common sense will determine the direction of any real discussion... not so-called baiter's. So again, how can one use the word "community" then turn around and dismiss the very definition of the word?

Right On Brother!

The Trigger Happy Coward (point man) lost focus/failed to properly assess the threat and respond accordingly. And now another innocent American citizen is dead.

Why even shout "Freeze" or "get down" if you are unwilling to give the respondent adequate time to process the command and to comply or not comply?

The real question is, was the Trigger Happy Coward determined to kill (murderous) the first subject who presented himself or was he simply such a chicken schit (cowardly scum) that he fired without provocation simply to save his own skin? And did he do it with the knowledge that he would be shielded (behind a badge/thin fukking blue line) by some despicable supreme court case law that he knew would grant him immunity/impunity???

Determine which of the above holds true or most true and from that we can deduce the most appropriate penalty. (murder, pre-meditated murder, murder under the color of authority, but murder, no matter how you look at it).

Land of the free, home of the dead. All in the name of "The war on drugs."

Several years ago (4), Peyton Strickland, an 18 year old, rich atty's son, living in a rental house (next to a country club) was shot/killed through a closed front door. It was an unjustifiable "show of force" and the officers should have never even been there...wasn't necessary. I think the city of Wilmington paid 4-5 million for that mistake, but that doesn't help Payton Strickland or his family one damn bit. It wasn't that LEO's first "throw gas on a fire" encounter either :(. The "Andy's" (calm, cool, and collected, veteran LEOs) need to clip Barney's wings imo (i.e. take away his bullet)...I know, Mayberry is fiction, but still I can hope :)

But there are also many who sincerely try, and are never able to quite make it out. And that is why police officers do what they do. To protect the people who are peeking out through the blinds. The kids whose parents care more about alcohol and drugs than about their own child's safety and welfare. The people who don't make it out. Those whom are left behind.

The duty of a police officer is to stand up for those who are unable to stand up for themselves, whatever the reason and without question.

Ezekiel 22:30 (New International Version, ©2010)

“I looked for someone among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found no one.

^This^ sort of contradicts your earlier "F these poor people in these poor neighborhood," statement.

Were you just being histrionic earlier?

"sort of" contradicts??? :)

I was just trying to point out the street cop's lose/lose situation mandated upon him by political policy makers and community "organizers."

They demand law enforcement. But not TOO MUCH law enforcement.

They complain about neglect, and then complain about attention.

They point to isolated incidents (when compared against the literally hundreds of thousands of police/citizen contacts that occur everyday) in which the street cop makes a mistake or a bad decision and then they are outraged and immediately demand the officer's blood. Due Process, comrades, is not for the wretched policeman. ;)

I will say this and then probably shut up on this thread:

Serving a search warrant is a completely different animal than simply rolling out into traffic for another patrol shift.

When that Officer gathered up his Kevlar Helmet, body armor, comm gear and other equipment, just prior to leaving the station on his way to serve that search warrant, it is very likely that he paused, just before he closed the door to his locker.

Looking back at him, inside that locker, was a picture of his wife and his little girl.

I'd be willing to bet that he took an extra second or two before slamming that locker door closed.

Cold Blooded Murderer??? or just a Husband/Dad trying to do a job to the best of his ability?

You tell me... :)

No, I doubt it... (IMO) he was just being honest...but now with the weight of public opinion upon himself he now makes quotes from the bible?....Look, its not just about jaded police,search warrants,drugs and crime. These are all "symptoms" of a bigger problem involving the lack of access to the "American Dream"... Now who wants to talk about that?...

A step in the right direction...

folks have access..
it's how bad do you want too change it..
your proof of that..
but some prefer shortcuts and the easy way..
and it's always easier to blame someone..
rather than the guy in the mirror..

Rika

watching that video reminded me of playing call of duty. that cop went into the house, shooting anything that moved. murder.

OK Rika.. lets take the schools in these areas for example. The people (kids) in poor neighborhoods don't receive the same education as people in "real"communities. Why, because of the insufficient "tax base" the schools cant attract the top teachers nor do these schools have the same recourses or equipment..this is just one example...

sounds like a cock sparrer song: blame the drugs, blame the system, blame the church, blame the schools, but don't blame me!

I will say this again... vested "ownership" in a particular area forms the basis for a healthy functioning "community".

No, it certainly isn't. The policeman gets sent home, with pay, for a few weeks, gets 'cleared' by his peers, and comes back to work. 11 times out of 10. Just like this guy did, even though it's the SECOND time this has happened to him. ( I admit the first time was a bit more clear-cut situation, perp had a gun, pointed it at the cop.)


Tell it to "golf club guy"s mom.

Or silver,

Just before that officer closed the door to his locker he muttered to a picture of his fallen comrade, "I'm gonna get me a perp for you tonight, bro."

Just as likely. You tell me...

Police Force - best 3-D FPS evar!

Before this gets lost in the background noise and obfuscation taking hold in this thread, let's remember one very imortant point - these officers knew their suspect had moved out, yet they elected to carry out their commando raid anyway. They had the badges, they had the guns, they had the warrant, and they had total impunity for their actions. They sure as hell were not going to waste that.

No one is arguing the need for this kind of police action. There are certainly violent, well armed sociopathic criminals out there among us. Most are endlessly cycled through a catch and release program brought upon us by the hand wringing ninnies of our society who seem to be more worried about the criminals' childhoods than the victims' futures. God bless the men and women who go after these people in an effort to bring them to justice.

Unfortunately, today, we see these tactics originally developed for and employed only against such violent offenders being missused, overused, by overzealous Rambo wannabes. They appear to live in some sort of fantasy land where a full-on military style assault is appropriate for serving the lowest level warrants or capturing the lowest level petty criminals. And, under our present conditions, they get to play out those fantasies.

That appears very much the case in this particular incident. These cops had no reason to go to that house, knowing their suspect had moved out. Yet they did anyway. They wanted some excitement, had a valid ticket, and were not going to squander it. Their obvious eagerness to play cost an innocent citizen his life.

busing them to great schools didn't work ..
throwing $$ at the problem didn't work..
around here the $$ schools district have to give to the poor ones ..
= little or nuthin..
it's a mind set ..IMO..
most folks that made it out had one thing in common..
a tough Mom & working dad (maybe on the dad..at least for me)..
a kid trying to get out of the slums Detroit & ahead..
is sure to be called a wannabee cracker..
by his friends & some members of his family..
= just accept , blame the man,have another baby or Malt..

Rika

Its a paradox...I will admit as much. you cant get out... no access and no access... you cant get out... Humm. I wonder whom or what created this situation?

Apparently less than 24 hours.

Three men disguised as police suspected in Ontario home invasion - The Globe and Mail

They wore bulletproof vests, police ball caps and drove a vehicle with a siren and flashing red light. They even claimed to have a search warrant. To most anyone, they seemed like policemen.

But investigators say the three men were impersonating police in an effort to rob a gated home in Ajax, Ont.

.....

“If you’re somewhat equipped and you do appear to have legitimate equipment and you are very forceful in identifying yourself as [police], people have a trust factor and unfortunately something like this … tends to lessen the integrity or the trust,” she said. “It’s quite disturbing that way in terms of the impact on society, creating doubt where there shouldn’t be.”

If people have misgivings about whether someone is a police officer, Sgt. van Rooy said they should ask to see the officer’s metal badge and photo identification card.

I made the last part green because he couldn't be serious....

Absolutely. And for all of you that support the cops in this video, I hope what happened to the victim happens to you sometime. Let's see how sympathetic your surviving family is to the cops. Or hell, maybe it will be your teenage son or daughter they shoot. Then you can appear in the media telling the public how they deserved to be shot.

Or simply have the people call 911 and ask the dispatcher if the police are at their address.

per this example, they are already dead. they might throw the phone, or it may be 'mistaken' for a gun or sword or knife.

Again, there was NO VALID reason for a no knock unless the affidavit was a pack of lies.

One second, there is nobody in the hallway. A second later, Blair is through the hallway and partially into the living room with the golf club raised like he's at bat. He is moving toward the cops. Those are FACTS. I don't know if the shooting was justified because I don't have all of the FACTS. Should the shooter have let Blair hit him a few times with the club? Who knows.