Why are Japanese cars more reliable?

[audiman08]

...than European ones? I was reading this article on the 5 cars mechanics hate (because they are too reliable) vs. 5 cars they love (because they break all the time and give them repeat business).

5 Machines Mechanics Hate, 5 Cars Mechanics Love - MSN Autos

All 5 reliable cars where Japanese, and all 5 unreliable cars were European. I'm used to seeing the European marques take a beating in Consumer Reports, especially on reliability...but, why? Are Japanese engineers that much better? Why don't Euro engineers have the same attention to detail?

[Nathans_Dad]

Dunno but after putting my 2006 325i back into the shop for the 3rd time in 6 weeks (each time for a different issue), I am about to decide this was my first and LAST BMW.

[legion]

European engineers delight in finding a new, expensive, exotic ways to do something that has worked well for decades. And they have a long tradition of customer service. Look up Ettore Bugatti or Enzo Ferrari for examples.

Japanese engineers copy and refine, then they hide any problems. (There are numerous stories of secret recalls where they simply fix a problem or replace a part when a car is in for other work without ever notifying the customer. The will also go out of their way if you do have a problem to keep you happy.)

[Esel Mann]

The Japanese mastered quality control and parts sourcing long ago (Toyota "incidents" aside which are an exception and not the rule). It's what was/is necessary for them to compete in the global market. Thus they excel at it.

The European cars are well engineered. Better than the Japanese cars. Notice that many of the Japanese cars (from mid-size up) try to copy/imitate the European cars, not the other way around.

So, it's really not about the engineering and more about production or production decisions. The exception of course being Subarus. They are really great cars. Easily on par with the European cars.

The Europeans, got caught with their pants down when they started assembling and sourcing parts outside Europe/U.S. They haven't quite figured out the right recipe for quality control and parts sourcing in the new places where they do business. Not to worry, it's simply growing pains. They'll get it under control soon enough. They'll have to in order to compete in the global market.

But at the end of the day does it really matter to us? No matter how they try, Porsche is still getting the better of both European and Japanese marques!

[Crowbob]

So it's not really the engineering or the cars. But actually the customer service? Well who'da thunk? Me going in for a problem and they fix two (for free!) is a lot better than going in for a problem and leaving with two more and a return appointment. Hiding problems with secret recalls is a good thing. And I'm happy if they do whatever it takes to make me that way.

[fastfredracing]

[QUOTE=legion;5805655]European engineers delight in finding a new, expensive, exotic ways to do something that has worked well for decades. -

Having worked on German cars for the past 15 years or so, I have to agree. Sometimes I wonder at why they built/designed it the way they did, and all that I can come up with is that sometimes , the Germans do it just because they can, and for no other logical reason. I love German engineering, but I swear, they could over engineer a see saw.

[Aerkuld]

Originally Posted by legion

European engineers delight in finding a new, expensive, exotic ways to do something that has worked well for decades...

I think you nailed it. I've often commented on my experiences with a Renault I once owned. A very interesting car, but I'm damned if I can see any reason behind why they did some things they way they did other than just because they could.

Technically the French are very clever and they do seem to come up with some really cool ideas. The problem I see is that they rarely develop these into something that actually works. The result is something that is technically interesting, doesn't work as well as it should, breaks a lot, and is a pain in the arse to fix.

[cgarr]

All I know is around noon time when the local GM stamping plant would let out for lunch the local drug store would have about 20-40 ounce-rs lined up on the counter already in bags ready to go for the troops! Japanese don't drink? I guess the US is not even in the running

[HardDrive]

My Mercedes E350 (06)was enjoyable to drive. But it seemed like the electronics were second rate. The navigation system was clunky and crude. The antenna for the GPS system went out 3 times in a year. WTF? My wife's Lexus is almost 8 years old, and we have had zero issues.

I don't like saying 'German cars', because Porsche should not be lumped in. I had an 02 Boxster that was 100% reliable. I currently have an 05 911S. Zero issues thus far.

[audiman08]

Originally Posted by legion

European engineers delight in finding a new, expensive, exotic ways to do something that has worked well for decades.

I agree, I guess European engineers try too hard to be different (which can be good and bad), while the Japanese just try to be efficient and reliable.

[Jim Bremner]

not enough hp or torque to cause any problems.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

not enough hp or torque to cause any problems.

maybe in the old days, not so much anymore.

for example, the V6 Honda Accord has more hp and torque (quite a bit more, in fact) than the V6 328i or V6 MB C300.

japanese cars are no longer down on hp or torque to their competitors.

I think, at least with MB and BMW, a lot has to do with pushing the technology envelope. Some of which is good, much of which is bad. Look at a modern MB, there is so much electronic crap on the car. That's the stuff that gets unreliable. The japanese are excellent engineers, too, but I think they tend to be a bit more conservative and straightforward.

it also seems like as the euro car companies have had more competition from other countries over the past 10 years, they've taken some cost cutting measures to keep the cars more price competitive.

[livi]

European cars are drivers cars. Hence driven harder.

Just to add perspective.

[porsche4life]

My corolla is a prime example of why they are so reliable. It is simple, it has no fancy features, but it just works. It has plenty of power(cruise 90 with ease) and rides well enough. Its not *fun* to drive but its a damn fine commuter car. The engineers didn't overload it with gadgets so it doesn't have all that crap to break.


Toyotas are by far the easiest vehicles I have ever changed oil in too, btw..... Simplicity goes a long way.

[sc_rufctr]

I'm sure it's a myth... Or an effect of efficient Japanese marketing.

I've often read how unreliable modern VWs are but my 1994 Mk3 has been brilliant.
That's not to say nothing has gone wrong but it's always been easy to fix. It's straight forward and robust.
The same can't be said for a similar Honda, Mazda or whatever. When they go wrong it's often harder to resolve the issue.
Often a similar vintage Japanese car will have faded paint and the trim is faded or missing.
My car still looks good and goes well. Even with 260,000 kms on the clock.

Mechanically, Japaneses cars do seem very reliable. But how many BMWs and MBs built in the 80s and early 90s are still running around?
Some just refuse to die.

I also think the average Japanese car on the road is younger than the average Euro car.
They're cheaper to buy so they tend to get traded sooner for the latest model.

OK so the new stuff coming out of Germany has had some issue.
I guess we'll see were things end up.

[porsche4life]

Its not merely a myth.... The jap cars do tend to break less....

I have relentlessly beat the **** out of my Corolla for 40k miles and it runs like a champ, and shows nary a sign of ever stopping.... I have 100% confidence that this car will fly right on past 100k miles with only fluid and filter changes....

[regency]

Just sold my 05 Tacoma with 163,000 miles on it for $7,000. All I did was regular maintenance, replaced the front struts once, starter once, battery once, headlight bulbs once. The only "failure" came when a airbag switch in the steering wheel failed, that cost about $500. to replace. Buying another Tacoma this week.

I don't even consider American car products.

Steve

73 911T MFI Coupe, Aubergine

[ErVikingo]

Originally Posted by Aerkuld

I think you nailed it. I've often commented on my experiences with a Renault I once owned. A very interesting car, but I'm damned if I can see any reason behind why they did some things they way they did other than just because they could.

Technically the French are very clever and they do seem to come up with some really cool ideas. The problem I see is that they rarely develop these into something that actually works. The result is something that is technically interesting, doesn't work as well as it should, breaks a lot, and is a pain in the arse to fix.

Are you hinting at Citroens . Lovely concepts those suspensions but, yikes.

Also the similar system on some Maser's, one hydraulic operating the brakes, steering assist, SEAT HEIGHT, headlamp retraction.....

[ErVikingo]

On the Japanese side, my Lexus GS400 took all the beating, modding, track days I could come up without a hiccup. 150K miles of abuse (that what I bought it for). Sold for $15K after all that.

Can't say the same of our beloved BMW's and Audi's. But we enjoy working on them...

[asphaltgambler]

As a tech in the field, all above is spot-on true. BMW (I think) sometimes changes/evolves just for the sake of doing it. 1 exception - the "I" drive which was released first on the 7 series. Taking the windows 'mouse' idea of selecting/confirming via data screen. Initially, a lot of people HATED IT. To the point that BMW bought back some cars. Now look at the current trends. Even MB has copied that idea as well as other manufacturers