Miata vs 914

[71T Targa]

Let's run down the pros and cons of the Mata compared to the 914. Both can be bought for about the same money. (say 5k) But how about the cost to drive? The fun factor? How do they compare power to weight wise?

Oh, and I'm not really interested in the 4k 928.. as much fun as that sounds.

[Racerbvd]

You have an old Porsche, so you are used to wrenching, so a 914, and they are going up in value, but easy to work on/modify and IMHO, a lot of fun to drive and do track events in.. Another plus for the 914 is with 2 trunks, you can carry a fair amount of beer and there are lots of 914 owners always willing to help other 914 fans.. Take a look in my garage

[Dantilla]

I have an early Miata. They are readily available for less than $5000 now.

-Very modern car. Great driving dynamics.
-Twin cam, four-valve head.
-Double wishbone suspension at all four corners
-No rust issues
-Very reliable
-Parts are available anywhere
-Effective air conditioning
-The best 5-speed shifter known to mankind (A big difference from a 914!)
-They draw no attention (I like that)

My 1993 has a 1.6 liter engine, rated at 115 hp, and weighs about 2300 lbs.

An absolute hoot on twisty back roads, but a bit buzzy for extended freeway drives. The engine is turning about 4000 rpm at 70 mph, and my 6'-1" head maxes out the headroom with either the hard top on or soft top up.

The car can be driven very aggressively, spinning the engine to 7000 rpm, without attracting attention, as it's still not going very fast. try THAT in a 400 hp Corvette!

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

Another plus for the 914 is with 2 trunks, you can carry a fair amount of beer ...

The trunk of the Miata can barely carry a thought.

Carrying capacity goes to the 914.

[trekkor]

Tough one.

If you want to road race with similar cars, it's plain and simple- Miata.

My 914 when I start tracking it again this season should hang with the faster Miatas. ( finally )
It takes 200 hp and slicks to hang with a 120hp Miata on 205/50/15 street tires...

Check out this V-8 powered Miata as it destroys the field at Infineon Raceway!


When my 911 engine explodes I'm going to have some decisions to make.


KT

[enzo1]

is it really possible to buy a nice 914 for 5000$???

[trekkor]

Originally Posted by enzo1

is it really possible to buy a nice 914 for 5000$???

I don't know for sure.

I think really nice, rust free, high quality examples will be commanding $10k+

I saw an ad recently for the parts in boxes to build my motor for $8k.

I 'd guess my car is worth 15-20 by now to reproduce.

Race engine, special trans, Smart sway bar, Elephant bushings, Konis, Eibachs, roll cage, GT flares, rad paint, MSD, etc.



Miatas are not that special, other than they handle really well.
Just click on CL and you will find many.

They have no sentimental value...


KT

[Nostril Cheese]

Miata. Hands down.

[dd74]

Isn't the Miata engine block one of the strongest ever used in modern automobile manufacturing? I heard somewhere it's capable of withstanding 300 hp.

I knew a guy who raced Spec Miata. Rode with him at Willow Springs - he never once touched the brakes after going WOT.

The car was that fast at not being that fast.

For cost and reliability reasons, he gave up a 911SC for the Miata. That says something, IMO.

[sc_rufctr]

(!$... or 914

Don't consider anything less.

One of the most important criteria for me when shopping for a car is TCO... That's Total Cost of Ownership

The 914 will still be worth what it is today in 5 or even 10 years time. Maybe even a bit more.
Of course you have to eat running cost etc but...

If you're using logic only then the 914 is the only one you should consider. It's way more solid than a Miata and therefore safer in a crash. (touch wood)
If you go with your heart then the 914 is the only one to consider.
If you want to look Steve McQueen cool then the 914 is the only one to consider.

Don't get me wrong. I think the Miata is a great car but it's not worth burning money on. End of story...

[Endat]

Originally Posted by dd74

Isn't the Miata engine block one of the strongest ever used in modern automobile manufacturing? I heard somewhere it's capable of withstanding 300 hp.

its the cast iron block from the 323 turbo I think.. 9:1 compression.. built for a turbo, but Mazda didnt give it one

I have never owned a 914, but I can talk about Miatas

PROS: They are lightweight with short gearing, which means theyre fun to drive and accelerate well enough up to about 85mph. They have really nice bucket seats and a nice short throw gear stick with a good click from the trans. They are cheap, but well designed, so they have great potential as a sports car. every mechanical part and then some is available aftermarket with better quality than factory. Turbo kits are abundant and just bolt-on. it has plenty of space for an intercooler too. They also sell LS1 conversions, and girls think theyre cute. also, you needn't pay them ANY respect while driving.. you can floor the throttle, throw it into corners, and smack 8,000rpm without fear of accidentally going too fast or pushing it too hard.. after you beat it around, it'll tick if it needs oil.. lastly, it feels like you're going faster than you really are, so you can pretend that 65mph in a 45mph turn is faster than most could do, even if it isnt.

CONS: They are very cheaply made, so they buzz and rattle and squeak and flex as you're driving around.. the wind noise from the top means you have to turn the radio up or talk louder at highway speeds, and if you have a passenger to talk to, he will ruin the acceleration... stuff that shouldnt break (like the plastic interior pieces and the plastic rear panel) does break.. I often used to break important bolts just by torquing them during maintenance. and the top leaks often causing a bad smell and a wet butt.. the top will tear itsself apart if you spend any time above 100mph, not that its capable of much more. it NEEDS more power as acceleration is compromised by luggage, having a passenger, having the top down, driving uphill, or even windy conditions. and if you add more power, youll need better suspension, bigger brakes, stiffer chassis and wider wheels, which dont usually fit well into the fenders.. also the windshield frame is very weak, so you're gonna NEED a roll bar to be allowed onto almost any race track.. also the 1989-1992 models suffer from a factory defect in the crankshaft that slowly suffocates your power to nothing as a result of retarded timing.. also the battery is pathetic, so if you listen to music while you're changing your oil, youll need to charge it or it wont start afterwards

Its a toss up since the 914 is like 30 years older, meaning it would be in the same mechanical shape as an early Miata. But if it were compared to a Porsche of the same era, no contest. As far as luggage, there is basically another trunk's worth of space behind the seats, provided you dont put the top down. Personally the cons were easier to list than the pros, and I wouldnt get the Miata unless you PLAN on burning money on it getting it up to better standards, the way it should have been built in the first place IMO

Hope that helps

[oldE]

[QUOTE=trekkor;5833622
My 914 when I start tracking it again this season should hang with the faster Miatas. ( finally )
It takes 200 hp and slicks to hang with a 120hp Miata on 205/50/15 street tires...

KT[/QUOTE]

I think this comment pretty much sum up the argument for me.

As for the comment saying the dual trunks of the 914 outperform the Miata in the cargo category..who cares unless you are packing for a cross-country trip. In that case, the relaxed cruise of the longer-geared 914 would have to be balanced against air conditioning and heat that both work.

At 6'3", (or I used to be), I am a press fit into an early Miata. Having said that, the driving dynamics of the vehicle are such that it makes you feel remarkably 'in contact' with the four corners of the car as soon as the wheels start turning.

Given a choice between an MX5 and a 914 the older car wouldn't get a second thought from me.

Les

[dewolf]

Originally Posted by trekkor

KT

See that just looks so much tougher than a Miata

[berettafan]

Older miatas can be had for $2k all day long, no trouble. Have a '90 myself and have ax'd it a few times. Neat car that is very inexpensive to fiddle with but, and this is going to sound really stupid, 50/50 balance is just boring.

I've done sway bars and v710's on the car but just haven't figured out how to really drive the car yet. the key i suspect is no brakes but that means you've got to be set up right going in and THAT is not so easy to do. the miata and my '70 911 weigh nearly the same i'd guess but one had maybe 170hp with a rear motor and the other is MAYBE 100hp and 50/50 weight distr.....you just can't drive the two in the same way.

The soul just isn't there on the miata for me. I tried to love it but i just haven't felt it yet. Too bad because they are just damned cheap and simple.

[71T Targa]

Originally Posted by enzo1

is it really possible to buy a nice 914 for 5000$???

Maybe.

Here's what I know about the 914 in question:

All original 1971 Porsche 914 1.7l. Well cared for and very clean car .

All numbers match, even the engine serial number. No cracks in dash, seats are good and so is carpet, (fiberglass replacement) targa top is good - no leaks and seats in very good shape, paint is very shiny and in good shape but I would still call it a very nice '10 footer". Original Pedrini alloy rims sitting on new correctly sized tires.

Everything is original to this car - it is even has the original D-Jettronic fuel injection system that operates perfectly. Just for kicks, I uncovered the car in January when it was 5 below, inserted the key and she started right up. This car sat in a garage for a long time and I purchased it as a hobby because I always wanted to tinker with an old car. Still has original Porsche push button radio (works) and the little foot rest that attaches to the right side interior panel. I also got the pneumatic windshield washer system working - old school system.

The only things that do not work on this car are 1. (left side flashers stopped right before I put car away for Winter - easy fix, just a short somewhere), 2. the underdash oil pressure gauge needs replacement - $50 part. The dummy gauge oil pressure light does work within the multi-funtion gauge in the dash and 3. the odometer - I do not know the actual mileage of this car).
Looks like the car was repainted factory color long ago. Very good heat as I repaired the rear blower auxillary motor that clicks on when when you pull the red lever on the floor past about 70%.

I have repaired all electrical components except as stated above, replaced the front wheel bearings, tie rod ends, flushed out the brake system, fixed parking brake, heat exchangers, rear heater blower motor & hoses, all lights, installed OEM muffler (not one of those loud ones that kids put on), new tires, had it aligned, flushed all fluids of course and other minor things.

Regarding the body - very good shape. One minor ding on trunk, no surface rust anywhere else. Only place there is rust is directly underneath the battery box in rear engine compartment - nothing huge and this is a common problem for these cars.

[AFC-911]

I've had my Miata for 10 years now. At this point, I'm pretty bored with it. I'd sell it if it wasn't my first car...

914 is the more interesting choice.

[herman maire]

There is NO QUESTION in my mind.... 914 wins, no contest.

Worst case put a WRX subaru engine in the 914 and that would be a pretty bullet proof car if you dont abuse the transmission. Also, the 914 is one of the coolest looking cars EVER when set up right.....

Any time I see a miata, I feel bad for the person driving it its just so darn ugly.

The 914 is a beauty.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

(!$... or 914

Don't consider anything less.

One of the most important criteria for me when shopping for a car is TCO... That's Total Cost of Ownership

The 914 will still be worth what it is today in 5 or even 10 years time. Maybe even a bit more.
Of course you have to eat running cost etc but...

If you're using logic only then the 914 is the only one you should consider. It's way more solid than a Miata and therefore safer in a crash. (touch wood)
If you go with your heart then the 914 is the only one to consider.
If you want to look Steve McQueen cool then the 914 is the only one to consider.

Don't get me wrong. I think the Miata is a great car but it's not worth burning money on. End of story...

It sounds like you don't know much about miatas. Ive had a 911 and three miatas (no 914). I feel pretty qualified to talk about miatas. They are very solidly put together/built. You say the 914 will hold its value, and assuming rust doesn't eat the thing, that's probably true. Miatas do hold their value, pretty well too. The ther thing that you mention is having to eat the operating costs, which for an old 914 and the price of parts for porsches culd be healthy. Miatas are extremely reliable, bulletproof is the term commonly used. Operating costs are pretty minimal for a miata.

914s are safer in a crash? Really? What makes you say that? I'd say that's absolutely wrong. The miata has the benefit of more modern crashworthiness engineering that did not exist when Tyne 914 was around.

[sammyg2]

I've had three 914s over the years and have logged probably in the neighborhood of 80,000 miles in one.
They are very fun to drive when they are running.
I have to say they are not all they are cracked up to be. The cost per mile for a 914 has got to be many times that of the miata. You have to really be into 914s to really like them.
Kinda like a boat, the two best days for a 914 owner ...........


But having said that, I can drive a 914 without anyone questioning my manhood.
sorry, couldn't help that part.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Endat

its the cast iron block from the 323 turbo I think.. 9:1 compression.. built for a turbo, but Mazda didnt give it one



CONS: They are very cheaply made, so they buzz and rattle and squeak and flex as you're driving around.. the wind noise from the top means you have to turn the radio up or talk louder at highway speeds, and if you have a passenger to talk to, he will ruin the acceleration... stuff that shouldnt break (like the plastic interior pieces and the plastic rear panel) does break.. I often used to break important bolts just by torquing them during maintenance. and the top leaks often causing a bad smell and a wet butt.. the top will tear itsself apart if you spend any time above 100mph, not that its capable of much more. it NEEDS more power as acceleration is compromised by luggage, having a passenger, having the top down, driving uphill, or even windy conditions. and if you add more power, youll need better suspension, bigger brakes, stiffer chassis and wider wheels, which dont usually fit well into the fenders.. also the windshield frame is very weak, so you're gonna NEED a roll bar to be allowed onto almost any race track.. also the 1989-1992 models suffer from a factory defect in the crankshaft that slowly suffocates your power to nothing as a result of retarded timing.. also the battery is pathetic, so if you listen to music while you're changing your oil, youll need to charge it or it wont start afterwards


Hope that helps

Hmm, I've had a '97 miata as a daily driver for about 6 years. I drove it hard. I upgraded the springs, shocks, wheels and tires. It cornered as fast as my old '88 911. It was a later model, so it had a stiffer chassis, bigger brakes and a bigger engine. I didn't have a problem with the top until I cracked the plastic back window by screwing with it whe. The weather was too cold. Instead of just putting a new window in, I put a new top on that had a glass back window. I never had any leaking problems until after someone hit the front corner, and even then, it was small and only under certain conditions. It leaked less than my old targa. I put 15x6.5" wheels on mine. My wife's has 15x7". Back in Aug I upgraded to an '04. Its running 15x8" wheels with no mods. My old miata, I liked to call, zippy. It wasn't fast, but it was zippy. They top out at around 110 - 120 mph depending upon the car and condtions.

These cons seem to either be based on a car that was in rough shape or to be out of the norm.

My only complaints about my first miata were:

1. The suspension was really soft. There was lots of roll, dive and squat. Fortunately, the way the suspension is designed with great camber curves, the car still grips the road really well. I upgraded to Bilsteins, but found that they didn't fix the problem, so I later upgraded the springs. That fixed that.

2. The stock wheels are fairly skinny 14". That means that your perf tire choices are extremely limited. Common performance upgrades are to 15" by 6", 6.5", 7" or even wider. Lots of kids are upgrading to 16" or 17" wheels. Most folks consider the 15" the best compromise of size and weight. Several tire manuf make high-perf tires for those sizes including the bridgestone re11.

3. The seats, to me, are pathetic. They offer horrible lateral support, especially considering that they are mounted in a sportscar. I performed a "foamectomy" on the seats in my old car, and at made a huge difference in support and comfort.

Yeah, more power would be nice, but the car has enough to have fun and get out of its own way.