Varnish versus Polyurethane

[kach22i]

Application: Interior use, new wood, Baltic Birch Plywood with exposed edges.

Availability: First off I don't even know if I can get real varnish any more (Carver-Tripp is gone). All the stuff on the shelves looks like the exterior marine grade with UV protectant added. Special order for interior grade stuff, wait a week or do a couple hours of driving and burn some gas.

Why I like Varnish: gives wood a honey glow, some call it amber.

Why I don't like Varnish: the honey glow goes away after a few years, and the wood looks lighter, bleached out. Some call say it clouds. Also it may have a longer drying time.

...............................................

Why I like Polyurethane: I can get MinWax clear satin anywhere, anytime. It is supposed to be more stable color wise than Varnish and more durable.

Why I don't like Polyurethane: it gives wood a reddish hue (oil based stuff does this) and looks flat, dry or dead when compared to varnish (even the glossy does not have the same depth of sheen). It's plastic, right? Now your wood looks plastic or fake, and it feels different than varnish. Varnish has a natural smoothness, Polyurethane is more rubbery, not as hard shell like (guess it may not scratch or chip as easily?).

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I'm looking to hear from die hard fans of varnish.

I'm looking to hear from the converts who now swear by oil based polyurethane.

I'm looking to hear from those who have gone green and trust the water-born alternatives.

Old varnish/plywood project:

[carr914]

I used to use Varnish when I could get it.

Now I only use Oil-Base Polys, but not the Fast-drying crap. Soon, I probably won't be able to get that either. Also I like Tung-Oil. I don't like Min-Wax at all - I think it is the worst product out there. Poly's should get hard, not rubbery. Make sure you let it dry thoughly between coats

Water-based poly's I tried but don't like it at all. Except on colored stains where I wanted a clear finish. W-B doesn't "Amber"

Spray Lacquer, Quick, but not enough prtection and doesn't amber.

[look 171]

Not sure what you want? do you like or dislike the reddish tone or amber. Alll oil base finish will give you that including vanish and poly. do yo have spray equip? YOu can try pre cat. lacquer. Great stuff. Polishes well, dry super hard. We have done kitchens with this stuff 10 years ago and held up fine. How about regular nitrocellose lacquer. Where is this piece going, or what it is?

Don't knock water base finishes. I use to when they first come out. NOw, they have really great stuff. Of course not at home depot. YOu just to know the aplication before selective the finish.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by carr914

I used to use Varnish when I could get it.

Now I only use Oil-Base Polys, but not the Fast-drying crap. Soon, I probably won't be able to get that either. Also I like Tung-Oil. I don't like Min-Wax at all - I think it is the worst product out there. Poly's should get hard, not rubbery. Make sure you let it dry thoughly between coats

Water-based poly's I tried but don't like it at all. Except on colored stains where I wanted a clear finish. W-B doesn't "Amber"

Spray Lacquer, Quick, but not enough prtection and doesn't amber.

Add Japan dryer to speed up drying process and eliminate dust settelment. You can take care of that by sanding between coats.

If you want the amber look, next time try to oil the wood first and apply lacquer.

[look 171]

JUst relalize you are an architect. What are you building, anything exiciting. We did all the cab/ mill work in Chemosphere a few years ago. Everything was book match Ash.

[Zeke]

Varnish is slow to dry. I use it only when dust control is at its best. Poly has served me well and the variety of gloss factors is great. Easy to blend for in-between too. I thin all my finishes 10%+-

Waterborne poly sucks IMHO but most floor guys are using nothing but WB.

[look 171]

Milt, that WB poly for floors is plenty hard, but for furnitures or other mill work it doesn't polish so well. Try ML Cambell's water base finish. They are good. I am very old school, usually if it doesn't not smell like crap, I just don't think it will stick. I have to say, I am sold. STill, I don't use it much. Louis and Co. carries it. Some of my tree hugger client demand it, so I have to find a good product for them if I were to work for them or their friends again.

[RoninLB]

Z-SPAR COATINGS 004_128_001_501 at West Marine




Z-Spar > 600 w&d > Minwax paste Finishing Wax

[kach22i]

Thanks for the input, and I like the amber over reddish hue just to be clear.

I talked to "the wood guy" at the local hardware store (Stadium) who claims to spend most of his time at his real job ankle deep in wood shavings.



Per his suggestion I'm going to try a couple coats of sealer (alcohol based) and a top coat of oil based polyurethane. Theory has it that the sealer will give it that amber hue I like, but the sealer is sensitive to cleaners and chemicals and should be protected. That is were a top coat of polyurethane comes in.

He also warned me away from steel wool because over time residue may oxidize and discolor the wood. Suggested fine sandpapering between coats if I must (like a car finish).

One important factor I forgot is that 11 years ago when I built my own office furniture out of Baltic Birch plywood I did the varnishing at midnight in the office, and cracked open the windows. This project is being built in my basement, with a wife and cat in the home. The sealer smells a little like a good but sweet bourbon, and the polyurethane is mild compared to the fumes varnish puts out.

I've read at least one vote against Minwax as a brand, the shelves are full of other brands. Name a few you like better.

I'll post the test pieces in a few days.

This wood finishing is for my no-box loudspeaker experiment/prototype.

[look 171]

You need durability or poly that drys hard for speakers? I would just shoot lacquer. If you like the amber, just add a little tint into the sealer or lacquer. That stuff in the picture is just shellac. You can just tint the lacquer and it should be fine. Lumber will darken a bit after exposure to the air or faster if under sun light.

I normally stay away from steel wool. 3M's 320 Tri-Mite paper is what we or our finisher like's to use.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by look 171

for speakers?

The speaker guys seem to like a Teak Oil finish for some reason.

I'll have to do something soon, it's getting nice outside. I already changed the front sway bar drop links on my S-10 today. Darn pot holes sheared the bolts off. It will not be long before I start working on the 911 outdoors again. Gotta finish up the indoor projects within the next couple of months.

[Reg]

I like Flecto Varathane brand polyurethane. You can buy it in oil/water base in a multitude of types and sheens. The water based goes on like milk but dries clear which can be helpful.

The paste wax finish is nice over it and reduces the platic look you may get with a high gloss.

The Baltic Birch is a great product, very strong in 3mm to 18mm thickness.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Reg

I like Flecto Varathane brand polyurethane.

Is Flecto the exterior grade?

Found this:
RustOleum.com

Varathane® Premium Polyurethane Oil-Based Wood Finish is specially developed to let wood’s natural beauty show through with the highest clarity over other oil-based polyurethanes. Our premium oil-based finish gives wood a rich, golden glow that deepens with warmth over time.

Looks good to me.

EDIT: answered my own question..................
http://www.polyclay.com/flecto.htm

Formerly made by the Flecto Company, Rust-Oleum is now the company that produces and sells this product.

[Reg]

Oh yeah ..sorry George.

I've associated Flecto with Varathane for over 20 yrs. I know they have interior lines but expect them to have an exterior grade product as well as Minwax does.

Reg

[look 171]

Originally Posted by kach22i

The speaker guys seem to like a Teak Oil finish for some reason.

.

That almost offer no protection compare to a coating like lacquer or varnish.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by look 171

That almost offer no protection compare to a coating like lacquer or varnish.

As my samples dry I want to know more about the protection lacquer offers. One of the stereo DIY guys uses lacquer on his speakers and on the wood on pre-amps and so forth. It is some of the most stunning work I have even seen - but only seen photos of it.

[look 171]

Are you after a glossy plastic like look? Most varnish or poly will give you that. In wood work, I think 3 coats of thin lacquer (semi gloss) looks best of just oil and wax. The later does not look too good with Birch or Maple, I think.

[carr914]

Originally Posted by kach22i

He also warned me away from steel wool because over time residue may oxidize and discolor the wood. Suggested fine sandpapering between coats if I must (like a car finish).

I've read at least one vote against Minwax as a brand, the shelves are full of other brands. Name a few you like better.

I like to use Steel wool, but don't use it with Water-Base, as you might lose strands of it in the wood and then they will rust.

For Oil-Base Polys & Tung Oil, I like ZAR Original Formulas

[kach22i]

I picked up some real varnish and real lacquer at an out of the way (for me) hardware store I was passing by.

More test strips are on the way.

The same store also has spray cans of both, but different brands.

[look 171]

Try a little Wadco oil on the birch before you apply the lacquer. It will give it a llittle amber tone. sand between coats. It hard to brush lacquer and get a good finishing result. The rattle can might do the trick as the top ocat. 320 grit sandpaper is your friend.