How does an ignition switch work anyway?

HardDrive · 02-16-2011, 03:41 PM

So when I bought my new truck, the guy told me the ignition switch was on the way out. Sure enough, you have to wiggle it a bit to get it to unlock. No problem. He only had one key, and even though I'm going to replace the ignition, I had a key made, because it can still be used for all the other stuff that requires a key.

The key I had made works fine in the doors, and it unlocks the ignition, and cranks the engine, but the truck won't start. Why? The key I have that works does not appear to be OEM, and doesn't appear to have any electronic component in it of any kind. Do individual elements of the keys shape cause different elements of the ignition system to engage?

Enlighten me.

masraum · 02-16-2011, 03:45 PM

Not in my experience. I've seen several and taken a couple apart. In all of those the key either worked or didn't.

kaisen · 02-16-2011, 03:52 PM

I'm betting your 2000 F150 has a RFID chip embedded in the key head. Want to see a picture?

I hope you made a NEW key based on the VIN, and not a copy of the already worn key. Otherwise you keep damaging the tumblers. My guess is they are already shot. Will cost a little over $100 to have a locksmith re-do the tumblers, make a new key shell, and transfer your old RFID to the new key. It'll be about $50 more to have the RFID system reprogrammed by the dealer if you want more than that one key.

VaSteve · 02-16-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardDrive

The key I had made works fine in the doors, and it unlocks the ignition, and cranks the engine, but the truck won't start. Why? .

What kind of truck? Sounds like another problem, or else there's some kind of kill switch he didn't tell you about.

HardDrive · 02-16-2011, 05:32 PM

It does have an RFID system called PATS. It can be bypassed, but its cheaper to just have the tumbler replaced and 2 new keys made. About 1 hr shop time.

masraum · 06:41 PM

You could always tape/velcro/glue the key with the right rfid tag someplace close to the ignition. It's a major Jury rig, but it would work if nothing else, temporarily, if necessary.

I'm not sure if the system in your truck is like most, but I suspect it is. If you have 1 key, and you need a 2nd key made, the dealer has to program the thing to work. If you have 2 keys and you want to program a third to work, it's super easy and you could do it yourself. So, the general recommendation is if you have 1 key, to get 2 more keys. If you have 3, and you lose 1, then you can easily replace the third.

I did this on my Mazda and had my mother do it on her Jeep. We each got a car with 1 key. We bought 2 new keys. I'm not sure about my mom, but when I took the 2 new keys to the dealer, they charged me the standard fee to program the first key ($100) and programmed the second key for free.

A930Rocket · 02-16-2011, 07:35 PM

My 2001 has the chip in the key. I learned that when I had a flat key made at Home Depot for my wallet. It turned the ignition on, cranked, but wouldn't start.

If it works to place a key or key head near the ignition, I might do that to keep that flat key in the wallet.

I do have the keyless entry on the door, which is nice.

Neel · 02-16-2011, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

My 2001 has the chip in the key. I learned that when I had a flat key made at Home Depot for my wallet. It turned the ignition on, cranked, but wouldn't start.

If it works to place a key or key head near the ignition, I might do that to keep that flat key in the wallet.

I do have the keyless entry on the door, which is nice.

+1 from about 100 miles away!!!

71T Targa · 02-17-2011, 06:41 AM

Same thing happened with me and our '02 Toyota.

I thought I'd save some money and key ring space and have a flat key cut. The first time I tried to use it I thought the car was dead.

A930Rocket · 02-17-2011, 07:06 AM

Then again, if I have a key with the chip hidden in the car and the door keypad to get in, maybe I don't need a flat key! I just unlock the door with the door keypad, get my hidden key out and away I go.

Unless the keypad doesn't work because the battery is dead, then I'll need that flat key to unlock it...

john70t · 02-17-2011, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

If it works to place a key or key head near the ignition, I might do that to keep that flat key in the wallet.

I keep a copy in my wallet too. It's nice for warming up the car in the winter.

The girlfriends car has self-locking doors which relock if not opened in about 10 seconds. Kind of a pain. Had to get the spare from the house a couple of times.

I was once on a long road trip and locked myself out at a gas station in the middle of nowhere. Middle of winter and wearing a teeshirt. Windows rolled up. Good thing the hatchback lock decided to break itself at that very moment.

fastfredracing · 02-17-2011, 05:22 PM

There are several ways you can deal with this Harddrive. I am not sure if holding/taping a key near the ignition will work, would not in my Jeep. may work with a ford, have not tried. Option #1, Ford actually sells a lock cylinder kit, I am pretty sure it is just under $100.00. You have to remove your lock cylinder and build the new one to fit your existing key. No programming required. Or Option #2, you can remove your lock cylinder, dissasemble it and try to figure out which tumblers are making it hang up. It will usually be only the first one or two, but look carefully . Just remove those offending tumblers. There will still be 7 0r 8 in there and the lock cylinder will function as normal but will not bind up anymore. Option # 3 is remove lock cylinder, take apart, and take out all of the tumblers. You will be able to twist your ignition with a screwdriver, but the car will still not start without the correct key because of the chip. I figured this out when my lock cylinder jammed 600 miles from home on vacation, and the nearest dealer was 3 hours away from us. I went out for a gallon of milk at midnight, and go to leave the store when all of a sudden, my key wont turn anymore. No warning signs. If you need any help, just ask, It is not really that hard, just need some time and patience. I have no real locksmith experience, and have pretty much figured out all of this on the fly.

kaisen · 02-17-2011, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

There are several ways you can deal with this Harddrive. I am not sure if holding/taping a key near the ignition will work, would not in my Jeep. may work with a ford, have not tried. Option #1, Ford actually sells a lock cylinder kit, I am pretty sure it is just under $100.00. You have to remove your lock cylinder and build the new one to fit your existing key. No programming required.

The kit lists for $112 and if you shop hard on the internet, it's about $65. Trouble is, the KEY is probably pretty worn. Get a new one cut by Ford based on VIN. You can TRANSFER the RFID chip out of the old key, and into the new shell. You can see the cap where the RFID is inserted. Just dig it out.

That said, I think Harddrive is planning to have a dealer replace things and make it right.

Hugh R · 02-17-2011, 05:50 PM

If you only have one key for your car, I did when I bought the Targa, use it as a master to make copies and put the original away. A copy of a copy of a copy goes down hill fast. My Targa is ROW so the dealers can't make a copy from the VIN. Can't help you with the RFID thing. But I do know that my wife "misplaced" one of the fobs for my 08 push button start Camry for a few weeks. IIRC they are a few hundred to replace.

HardDrive · 02-17-2011, 06:20 PM

Took a look at it today more closely. The actual tumbler appeared to be ok (not that you can really tell by looking at the outside).

Called the dealership, and they wanted $375 to replace the tumbler and make 3 keys. Ummmmm....no. Made a few calls and got directed to a local lock shop. Took it up there, they looked it over, said the tumbler was fine. Made me 3 RFID keys for $110. Done.

fastfredracing · 02-17-2011, 06:29 PM

Glad you got it done, the last one I had in the shop , it was in fact the tumblers. They had purchased a new key, and already had a spare, and had still had the same issue with the lock sticking. Man the dealer really is not shy when it comes time to write the bill.