question for electrician types, 230V welder hookup

[Shuie]

I have a 4 wire 240V dryer connection in my garage on a dedicated 30A GFI. This is a dedicated circuit I had wired up in my garage for another project. At no time is it used for a dryer or sharing a load with anything else.

If I can do it safely, I want to use this receptacle to power a 230V welding machine. The machine I'm looking is the convertible 120V/230V Miller that operates on a 25A max input according to the spec sheet. Can I make an adapter cord from a Home Depot 10/4 30A dryer cord using only the prongs for the (2) hots and the ground that plugs into the wall and a female 230V welder type plug on the other end to plug the machine into?

Hobart actually makes an adapter cord like this that fits a 4-wire 50A receptacle. I know there isn't a lot of extra room on a 30A circuit for a 25A device, but do you think could run this machine off of the 30A circuit with an adapter cord? Should I expect a lot of nuisance breaker trips? Worse? The machine would probably operate in 120V most of the time if I buy the convertible Miller, but I'd really like to be able to step up to 230V if I needed to.

TIA

[oldE]

I wouldn't.

Depending upon the gauge of wire and length of the run from the panel to the outlet, I would just buy the proper type of outlet and install it where the dryer plug exists.
I'm guessing the wire gauge is a size small.

Les

[lane912]

Originally Posted by oldE

I wouldn't.

Depending upon the gauge of wire and length of the run from the panel to the outlet, I would just buy the proper type of outlet and install it where the dryer plug exists.
I'm guessing the wire gauge is a size small.

Les

+1
just buy the proper recepticle and instail it in the box. then you will be proper

[wdfifteen]

Let's see if I understand:
Your garage is wired with a 240 volts 30 amp circuit
You want to plug a 230volt, 25 amp max device into it
The service receptacle doesn't match the cord end on the device
You are considering making a cord to adapt the device to the wall socket

You should encounter no electrical problems at all.
It would be cheaper to replace the receptacle with one that matches the welder cord because you only have to buy one receptacle. To make an adapter pigtail you'd need the receptacle plus the dryer cord/cord end.

[Superman]

It sounds like you could do it either way. Replacing the outlet would be more 'proper.' 230V is the same thing as 240V, BTW. Actual voltage can/will be somewhere in that range. "110" is often expressed as "120" since actual voltage typically falls within that range. Like you, I would prefer the 220 arrangement over the 110.

I am not an electrician.

[David]

As long as your wires are big enough, especially the ground (since you'll be running 3 wires instead of 4), you'll be fine. What's the distance between the breaker box and the welding machine?

[billybek]

You might be able to find an adapter from an RV dealer.
Make sure the device (welder) is protected with the proper amperage breaker.

[Shuie]

Thanks, guys. The 4-wire 30A dryer connection was installed in the garage for a different non car related device that needs 120V & 240V capability. Since I need the neutral for that device changing the recetacle to match the welding machine plug isn't really an option.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Let's see if I understand:
Your garage is wired with a 240 volts 30 amp circuit
You want to plug a 230volt, 25 amp max device into it
The service receptacle doesn't match the cord end on the device
You are considering making a cord to adapt the device to the wall socket

Yes. That's what I was trying to type Thanks for the help

[Shuie]

Originally Posted by David

As long as your wires are big enough, especially the ground (since you'll be running 3 wires instead of 4), you'll be fine. What's the distance between the breaker box and the welding machine?

10ft max. It's a regular 2 car garage. The cable with the welding machine is probably long enough, I just need an adpater plug or a short extension with the 2 types of plugs to hook it up to the 4 wire connection in the wall.

[Joeaksa]

We did it with my MIG welder and it works fine. That said its a dedicated "Welder" circuit and nothing else is plugged in there.

[wdfifteen]

"I have a 4 wire 240V dryer connection in my garage on a dedicated 30A GFI. This is a dedicated circuit I had wired up in my garage for another project. At no time is it used for a dryer or sharing a load with anything else. "

"The 4-wire 30A dryer connection was installed in the garage for a different non car related device that needs 120V & 240V capability. Since I need the neutral for that device changing the recetacle to match the welding machine plug isn't really an option. "

I'm totally confused. How many gizmos are you planning to power with this circuit?

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I'm totally confused. How many gizmos are you planning to power with this circuit?

Probably one at a time.

I did this same thing and found that a female cord connector can cost a lot. So, while it would be cheaper to change the wall device, you can make that adapter cord. Buy a quality cord with large gauge stranded wire. You won't find this at the box store.

[HelmetHead]

How far is the breaker box from the garage? Why not run a dedicated new circuit?

[9dreizig]

I did the same thing.. Get yourself the correct female receptical and a 99 cent box to put it in and wire it to the correct dryer plug.. Cheap, easy and it will work fine!
T

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by HelmetHead

How far is the breaker box from the garage? Why not run a dedicated new circuit?

Chances are that there's no room for another double pole breaker or that another 30A will exceed the overall load for the main. If not, I'd run a 50A. Welders like clean current and no voltage drop. A 30A using 10 ga. with the welder having the potential of drawing 25A (average) will not perform like a 50A circuit using 8 ga.

Or so I'm told.

[Shuie]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

"I have a 4 wire 240V dryer connection in my garage on a dedicated 30A GFI. This is a dedicated circuit I had wired up in my garage for another project. At no time is it used for a dryer or sharing a load with anything else. "

"The 4-wire 30A dryer connection was installed in the garage for a different non car related device that needs 120V & 240V capability. Since I need the neutral for that device changing the recetacle to match the welding machine plug isn't really an option. "

I'm totally confused. How many gizmos are you planning to power with this circuit?

(2) devices, only one will be plugged in at a time. The receptacle was installed to provide both 240V and 120V power to the control panel for my electric brewery. This is in my garage, maybe 8-10 feet away from where I work on my car. I want to use the 240V receptacle to power a welding machine (when it's not being used to make beer).

[A930Rocket]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you said it was on a GFI, as in GFI breaker? I don't think that's going to work. Replace it with a standard breaker and toss the GFI.

[A930Rocket]

If you want one outlet, you'll need to change your brewer plug or the welder plug. I don't see a problem either way, but I'm not an electrician.

[pksystems]

I'm running my my 230v welder off my 40a oven plug, with a welding extention cord to garage. No probs yet. If my basement wasn't finished, I would have run a dedicated line all the way to the detached garage.

[Zeke]

Most small welders of the MIG and stick variety work fine on 50A. 30A is small but unless you crank that MIG up to weld 1/4" plate and rolled stock, it won't draw enough to pop the breaker.

And if it was rated only 25A to begin with, I'd say duty cycle is the only consideration and the machine will turn itself off.

I'm going to reiterate: make up an extension that will reach a few feet into the driveway out of heavy ga. wire and eat the cost of the various parts. Life will be easy.