How do you give a 41 yr. old a kick in the ass?

[Rick Lee]

My dearest friend from college is in a very bad spot, has been for two years and his unemployment $$ is running out. Much of it is of his own doing, but he has had a few bad breaks. He got ulcerative colitis a few years ago and was on short-term disability for a few mos., spent some time in the hospital, lost a ton of weight and then developed depression. I don't know much about depression, but his case has made him afraid to ever answer the phone. I'm not saying that because I have a hard time reaching him. It's what got him fired. His boss tried to keep him in the loop on deals while he was out sick, but "Phil" just never responded to his boss's calls or emails. Boss finally gave him an ultimatum through another close friend who got Phil his job there. Boss said Phil will be fired if he doesn't call by noon on Monday. So Phil decided to email the boss Monday afternoon. Bam! Fired. Phil couldn't even bring himself to return his Blackberry and, after several warnings, the company wiped it clean remotely and shut it down, losing all Phil's personal info in there too.

Phil finally sought help, started seeing a doctor, got on meds and started doing a lot better. But by then his wife had had enough and walked. Now Phil is consumed by anger and bitterness toward his estranged wife, who he feels abandoned him when he needed her the most. I don't think she's a bad person at all and Phil has never claimed she was an unfit mother. But wife, who had quit her real job to work from home part time and raise their daughter, went back into the workforce, got a great job and is moving on.

Phil, afraid he'd end up paying alimony after the divorce, has sort of deliberately not looked for a real job, worked under the table and generally been a bum. Now he's really broke and says he can't even get a job at Home Depot. I told him he would never know about a job offer, since he never answers his phone. My folks even tried to call him when they were in the neighborhood, but his voicemail box was full.

Anyway, the guy needs a kick in the ass. He's normally not a slacker, he's super smart and no one has ever met him and not liked him. He's got some brand of depression that makes him fear contact with people and the meds he takes ain't fixing it. I'm a little agoraphobic, hate everyone and don't view a ringing phone as a call to action. But I put that all aside when I'm working and get it done. He can't. How to help him? Let him hit rock bottom, go on welfare, lose all custody of his daughter, while life passes him by? Or try some kind of proactive intervention?

[Zeke]

I don't know why you couldn't speak to his doc. Are you sure he's taking the meds? Perhaps a change. And maybe an outing. Do you have the time to intervene? It's not just a kick in the ass.

[porsche4life]

While Phil does have a pysch problem, it doesn't sound like depression, so much as paranoia. He doesn't need to be going to a regular doc, he needs to be going to a psychologist or psychiatrist. He needs to work through whatever his problem is, not just mask it with meds....

[Rick Lee]

I think the doc he's seeing is a shrink. He's back east, so it's hard for me to do much. I get bits an pieces from him, as he'll send long texts after a few drinks and I get the rest of the story from our mutual best friend who lives near him. I flew him out here last summer to do a roadtrip to Albuquerque and see a Rush concert. I thought the change of scenery and hanging out in the pool here would be good for him. And since I answer my work Blackberry 24/7, I thought it might be good for him to see someone being busy, while having a pretty good work gig at home. But it was just a(nother) week off for him and didn't make any difference.

[kaisen]

He very well may have depression, but it sounds like he also has an anxiety disorder. They are treated differently, with different medication. His psychiatrist will only know if he shares all of his feelings, which men don't always (or usually) do.

If things do go South and he hits bottom, he will not lose custody of his daughter unless he chooses to act poorly. But simply having no money or job and being on welfare will not be enough to cause the state to give away his rights.

[Rick Lee]

His strategy for staying near his daughter was that he has a "job," I think under the table, working for an upstart school teaching robotics to pre-school and kindergarten-age kids. He could bring his daughter to work and his wife was unemployed. But now she has a good job and he can no longer make ends meet with this school job and UI running out. He's getting free room and board from the school's founder, so there's not much of a paycheck in addition. Now he needs to move back to where his family is based five hours away, because one of his brothers can give him work there. I don't know if family courts consider under the table jobs to be real jobs or not. Seems to me, if they consider it for child support purposes, they would also consider it for stability purposes. Though the mother has the much better job and situation now. And Phil will, once again, be making that five hr. each way commute to see his daughter. I doubt he'll be able to afford the gas and toll money much longer, let alone doing anything with the daughter that costs money.

[kaisen]

Custody, visitation, and (primary) placement are all different things. He will not lose his custodial rights. Placement and visitation are sometimes situational, but he won't 'lose' days with his daughter, perhaps just how they are arranged.

[Rick Lee]

The bottom line is that his (already weak) plan for being granted sole or majority custody has fallen apart. And that's going to be another slap in the face to a guy who already feels like the world is caving in on him. I'm not saying this isn't of his own doing, but it's gonna sting him badly and I hate seeing a dear friend hurting like this. I feel so helpless. I feel like sending him over to my folks' house for a weekend, where my dad will give him some tough love talk. He respects my dad a lot. His own dad passed away when Phil was 4.

[M.D. Holloway]

Sadly he does need help but the chances of influence coming from an outside source to push him towrds getting better most likely will not work. It has to come from him. You can't do anything. It just won't work.

His self worth is zero. He has no ship on the horizon. He is basically breathing and eating and sleeping and thats about it. I don't see this ending well.

The streets have people living on them that fit this bill. It is very sad.

[rsNINESOOPER]

Sorry to hear about your friend. Its hard to watch a good guy go down hill and struggle in life. Shame on his wife, whats the point in getting married if the other person won't even stick by you through hard times. Can't blame him for being bitter at all. No matter what his problems are just being a good friend is all you can do. Keeping him engaged in life and urging other friends in common to do the same. If you have the kind of relationship with him to be frank with him by urging him to get back to real life it might help. As we all know you can help someone all you want but if they do not help themselves it is futile. Maybe using his daughter as a a key reason to return to a better place would be good strategy. There must be a strong bond between them even if its fuzzy right now.

Hope things get better.

[Rick Lee]

Yes, his daughter seems to be the only angle I can come up with for motivating him to get it together. He really wants his life to revolve around her. But that makes it all the more puzzling as to why he doesn't take steps to make that possible. What he's doing now pretty much guarantees he'll only see her a few weekends a month after much driving to and fro. When he was here last summer, the only time he ever picked up his phone was when his daughter called at 7pm on the dot every night. He adores her....as much as he hates his estranged wife. I'm not a grudge-holding kind of guy and he never was until this happened. Life is just too short to be consumed by anger and bitterness. My dad told him, "Resentment is like taking a spoonful of poison every day and waiting for the other person to die." Of course, Phil nods in agreement, but continues his hatred. I just don't get it. He has much bigger problems now than getting even with her.

[sm70911]

It sounds like this guy has a cyclical depression coupled with a terrible lack of self esteem currently. A kick in the ass needs to be very gentle but also firm in the sense that he is not alone.

This sounds odd but part of the problem is a lack of physical exercise coupled with a deeply diminished sense of personal achievement. This can happen very easily when you fall into the kind of cyclical depression he is experiencing. One bad event will seem to the sufferer to just fall on top of another.

This is a serious condition prescribed medication can help but he must begin to work through mentally and physically and reset his focus which is set to a very self conscious spiraling negative. Intensive one on one therapy coupled with a physical activity: Basic Yoga class is ideal because it is non judgemental and can build inner strength without the body conscious or competitive aspect of some gym classes. Can you go with him ? If not Yoga swimming, biking ? running ? but something challenging which will build core strength. he may well need a support buddy for this.

If and its a big if, he can commit then he needs to replace the negative areas with more positive ones. Can he create something ? Can he attend classes be they visual, or based around writing, or more technical activities where he interacts with more people instead of hiding in the house ? If he can do small little things which become a palpable series of victories it will help him re build his broken self esteem.
The long term answer is therapy where he can express himself and the will to want to change.
Good luck

[Seahawk]

Excellent advice below, really well put.

I've dealt with this with one of my best friend's...different guy, different circumstance but he was adrift when he had never been before.

Try and show him a way out of his condition, don't push him...it all starts when he sees it, which my friend hasn't, just quite yet. He will.

Originally Posted by sm70911

It sounds like this guy has a cyclical depression coupled with a terrible lack of self esteem currently. A kick in the ass needs to be very gentle but also firm in the sense that he is not alone.

This sounds odd but part of the problem is a lack of physical exercise coupled with a deeply diminished sense of personal achievement. This can happen very easily when you fall into the kind of cyclical depression he is experiencing. One bad event will seem to the sufferer to just fall on top of another.

This is a serious condition prescribed medication can help but he must begin to work through mentally and physically and reset his focus which is set to a very self conscious spiraling negative. Intensive one on one therapy coupled with a physical activity: Basic Yoga class is ideal because it is non judgemental and can build inner strength without the body conscious or competitive aspect of some gym classes. Can you go with him ? If not Yoga swimming, biking ? running ? but something challenging which will build core strength. he may well need a support buddy for this.

If and its a big if, he can commit then he needs to replace the negative areas with more positive ones. Can he create something ? Can he attend classes be they visual, or based around writing, or more technical activities where he interacts with more people instead of hiding in the house ? If he can do small little things which become a palpable series of victories it will help him re build his broken self esteem.
The long term answer is therapy where he can express himself and the will to want to change.
Good luck

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by sm70911

This sounds odd but part of the problem is a lack of physical exercise coupled with a deeply diminished sense of personal achievement.

This is the weird part. He's an accomplished drummer. And I mean goooood. He plays in two bands, one a Rush tribute band and the other a Dave Matthews tribute band. If you know this music, neither are the stuff of amateur drummers. He's amazing. But these bands don't gig enough to pay the bills, obviously. And they're both based where he is now and not where he'll likely end up having to move if he can't find work and stay near his daughter. He won't be able to continue with these bands if he has to move and that will add to the depression.

No, I can't go with him. I'm a 4 hr. flight from him.

[azasadny]

This sounds just like my buddy, unfortunately, I don't believe there's anything you can do.... If you find something that works, let me know and I'll try it with my buddy...

[RWebb]

ok, he won't answer his phone & you won't answer your door??

I also have a friend with chronic depression - not in as bad a shape as yours (he's now teaching English in China). None of us have been able to help him much, so don't get your hopes up too high.

A sit down where you lay out the consequences of doing or not doing X, Y, Z may or may not help, but it is something to be tried.

The only adivce not given above that I might have is to see if you can talk to his relatives & friends (form some sort of "support group") or to a professional about what to do - obviously his MD cannot betray any confidences tho.

[vash]

sorry at 41, he is out of excuses. he needs to help himself. even if he needs to drag his butt in for help

[A930Rocket]

Depression/anxiety/panic attacks. Sounds like one or a combination of them. I think you can talk to someone until your blue in the face and they still won't budge. It's going to take himself to take that step with someone who is familar with them, some therepy and meds to get him back on track. It won't happen over night, but it can get better over time.

[HardDrive]

Buy him this book:

Amazon.com: Start Where You Are: A Guide to Compassionate Living (Shambhala Classics) (9781570628399): Pema Chodron: Books

I read it at nostatic's suggestion. It change my life for the better. Big time.

Guys seriously down on himself. The loudest voice telling him to be ashamed is his own. Theres a fix for that. And it doesn't involve medication.

[on2wheels52]

"Shame on his wife, whats the point in getting married if the other person won't even stick by you through hard times."

How about we leave her out of this, or at least until we can hear her side of what life with this guy has been like for the last few years?
Jim