haters gotta hate

where in the world did haters come from.....that's random and outa context...

The ability of a woman to resume her career after a 15-20 year motherhood hiatus will depend hugely on what career we're talking about. For nursing, I guess it can be done -the "nursing shortage" helps. Many other careers - not happening. My wife was a lawyer, no-one is looking for a 50+ y/o lawyer who hasn't seen a courtroom/casebook in 15 years, her career is not completely "toast", but the odds are very, very poor. Especially in this economy.

And any woman on the IT side... If you are out 10 minutes then it has already passed you by... just saying...

SmileWavy

I don't mind absolutes in life, in fact embrace them when appropriate. I would be more than willing to share some of the views of parenting expressed in this thread if I believed them to be true. What should be abundantly clear is that there is no absolute regarding the raising of children except one: Establishing a consistent framework of love and support, caring, discipline and expectation.

My life is somewhat unusual in that my father was in the military until I was 10...deployed a lot for long periods. What some would call a void was in reality quite a gift. I still have his letters, written just for me, talking about how much I meant to him, his regrets at not being there for certain important events, thanking me for holding down the fort under difficult circumstances. So much more. We event have old reel-to-reel tapes he would make for the holidays and birthdays.

He was a great father from ten thousand miles away.

My mother volunteered quite a bit in those days, no doubt anxious about my father. I look back and admire her pluck: Many women in similar circumstance turned to other pursuits, few positive.

The other Army wives would share after school duty...while my mom not always home there was an anticipated comfort of knowing where I was going and when she would be home. It worked because it was a known routine.

When my wife and I had children we discussed the pros and cons of a working mother, at length, in detail and with our eyes open. Based on my childhood experiences, we decided that we would try and replicate what I know is true: Establishing a consistent framework of love and support, caring, discipline and expectation is key.

We gave ourselves financial and career (hers) off-ramps should we feel the need to not have my wife work.

It never happened. My children know love, know us and have become exceptional young adults.

In my humble experience, mere physical proximity to your children is not as important as their comfort in knowing both what to expect and what is expected of them. I know families that don't communicate from two feet away, much less ten thousand miles. We don't have that problem.

Being a parent is a constant OODA Loop...you guys decide and act your way, I'll go mine.

Best.

You are a wise man, Paul.

angela

Bravo Paul...SmileWavy

wtf?

Vash, you post more stupid threads then anyone else on how or how not to run your life...you love DRAMA

f u..

I will say this, though. If a woman is going to stay at home doing nothing all day, why can't she make herself useful and adjust my 911 valves?

Just trying to take the heat off vash here :-)

I'm with you Vash.

I'm with Paul, (and his wife), in that I agree that there are far more important variables than whether both parents have a career. Have you ever watched the television show, "Mad Men"? It presents an incredibly accurate picture of a certain type of nuclear family circa 1960 with traditional male/female parent roles. They are both horse schit parents. She seems like she could care less about her kids and in fact resents them and her pre-ordained role in life as a stay-at-home breeding machine and housekeeper. He is far too busy drinking and ****ing to even remember that he has kids most of the time. They get a peck on the cheek when he comes through the door and that's IT.

I was born in 1959 and I've seen more of these types of horrible traditional families than I can count. My Mom was a stay-at-home housewife when we were little but fortunately she was born to be a mom and really got into the role. Probably half of the women on earth find it a pain in the ass, from my unscientific observation. My Dad barely noticed us unless it was to administer an ass-whupping.

My sister and her husband are both MDs with busy careers and 3 kids ranging from 12-16 in age. They made a conscience decision to have kids and start a family, (as opposed to 50 years ago when if you were not married w/ children, your neighbors and colleagues looked at you like you were a freak). They are extremely involved in their kids' lives, (almost obsessed if you ask me), and are exceptional parents by any sane measure. All three are doing very well socially and academically with no serious problems, (knock on wood). They are involved in sports and their parents are at nearly every game or swim meet screaming their names. They take vacations together as a family and the parents are at home in the evening about 350 days a year. I really think that the advances in reproductive freedom and family planning have resulted in more people actually wanting their children and being better parents. You really see the opposite in uneducated people or groups where things seem a little "less planned".

If my sister had been denied her career, (medicine), she would have been one miserable, pissed-off woman for life. She is type-A beyond belief and knew what she wanted to do in the 7th grade, then focused like a laser beam on her goal. She wanted that career and to have kids and a great family and she got it.

I cannot speak for Paul, (he does a fantastic job by himself), but can say that their family is similar in many ways to my sister's. The kids are great, seem happy and well-adjusted and most importantly have not grown up in a house where the parents are hating life and transmitting that to them 24/7 through a hundred different passive-aggressive actions like I used to see all the time in the '60s. I can't count how many pill-popping, miserable and disengaged mothers I saw growing up. And this was in the good part of town.

All kids want is for their home life to be harmonious with present, kind parents and for their parents to show up for their sporting/band/whatever events. Here is a gratuitous picture from my last trip to MN. in the fall. Both my sister and her husband went straight from a long day at work to their daughter's swim meet and it was not close by. (From SW Mpls. to St. Kates in St. Paul for locals). Her brother was there as well, drove himself w/ freshly-minted DL. (16 y.o.). This where they spend their off-work hours if not at home. Their kids are also helping them decide whether to buy a vacation house in Vail or Park City right now, thanks to their awful double-career life. :cool:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1299090283.jpg

Geez. No kidding. Talk about catching a stray bullet. That actually pulled me out of lurkerville...if only for a moment.

Just call em as I sees em...most cant stands it.....most you drama queens I never see over on the tech side of anything...........Not such a stray bullet

W....t....f?

I agree with Paul. My father was active duty Navy until my Freshman year in college. He was deployed extensively until I was 11. Up until that point my mom was a stay at home mom, when we moved to the DC Area, and my dad was no longer at sea, she got back into the teaching field. By the time I was in High School, she was working full time.

When we had kids my wife wanted to keep working. She is in the IT Field, and we knew how difficult it would be for her to rejoin it. She works for the local school district, and is very active in the kids lives.

While I am not in the military, or deployed for long periods of time, I do travel frequently during the week, but never on the weekends. My family and I do special things that relate to my trips, and it works for us.

Like Paul said, everyone is different.

No, let's get back to drinking and bashing Vash, since that has to be what is going on with the hater.

Bill

I have more posts on the 911 tech board than you have total posts. And some of them are actually helpful. :)

The force is strong with this one

Ironic that some are defending Charlie here while other bash working parents.

I think the context lapped you...NOT the amoun t of post

Are you that big of a dick, or trying to make up for the fact that you weren't born with one? Whoops, meant to post in the 'Comeback" thread...

+1

WTF afterburn?

100 posts on this??

Let's just kill all the nannies and be done with it.

103

For each post past 100, God kills a nanny and her kitten.

sex kitten??

I have two children that are rather far apart in age. My wife stayed home with one until they were well into school...but did not the other (really did have to work to put food on the table). Oddly enough, one turned out to be a big problem and total loser as a teen and adult...while the other was almost the perfect child and adult. Guess which was which....

Not what one would expect; the one with the stay-at-home mom throughout much of their childhood did not become the well adjusted, happy, productive one.

I find it interesting that Jeff goes to one extreme (going as far as to say that being a "real mom" requires staying at home with the kids) and then holds out some examples of working moms with country club memberships and Porsches, then lashes back at others for giving "extreme" examples. Sorry Jeff, can't have it both ways.

People generally do the best they can for their kids. There is no one-size fits all solution, and parenting is an art learned on-the-job. I've know people who came from stay at home mom families who were screwed up and others from "broken" homes that turned out great. And vice versa. It has more to do with the individuals than some decree of what is the "right" way to raise kids. I see some with a very western model for how to do things. And that is fine. But to impose that view on others and do it with condescending language won't get you far. And those that haven't raised kids frankly don't have much of a clue about the dynamic. Until it is on *you*, you just can't grok it.

I feel like killing a nanny, so I'll post again. . .

Personally, I was not raised by a stay at home mom. I didn't have a mother at all, for most of my life. Parents divorced when I was 5, didn't see my mother again until I was in college. So I was raised by my dad. Who was a working dad, worked in various countries, I went w/ him. Although you could say I was a latch key child, my father was very involved in my interests, education, etc and I never lacked for parental attention. My mother remarried, had a daughter, continued working - quite the career woman she was - her husband also worked. She (sister) and her husband both work, they have a nanny. My wife is raising the kids full time. By Jeff's thinking, there's at least three of those four instances that should have turned out, or be turning out, some failed kids. Not seeing that so far.

There, cantdrive, God is gonna off your nanny. Did you a favor.

I've been trying to follow all this as a point of interest 'cause I don't have any kids and never wanted any. Me and my brother would look at each other when our parents fought and said to each other routinely since we were around 10 yrs old "This is nuts. I'm never gonna have any kids" Neither of us are fathers.

But........ I ran into this female many years ago who my friend brought to our rented house at 4 am. He brought one he would occasionally party with and her girl friend. In 15 minutes we hooked up. Then I found out she was going through divorce and had a 1 and a 10 yr boys and my pact with my brother entered my mind first thing. Needless to say we stayed together for a little over 4 years.

My work hours were convoluted and could happen at any time day or night. She had a day job. The little one soon became another appendage to my German Shep as soon as he stopped crapping. The scene was a bit different than a father son as i had no responsibilities and the mother would do anything to keep me around and clean up any mess we made. The freedom of that was wild on occasion as whatever i could dream up she went along with and kept her mouth shut as she cleaned up. The kid's first foray into the tub alone brought screaming and crying. "Let me try." Out comes an open plastic bottle of honey. He stopped crying and started playing with the honey and made the obvious mess etc etc. If he started crying at night i got up, dressed him and we took the dog out at all hours for a 1/2 hour. My favorite way of dressing him was in a full length snow suit 9 months of the year. The dog went in the back of the car and i grabbed his suit around the chest area and tossed him in the front seat. He wouldn't stop doing anything he was involved in as being tossed around by a sack, though gently by me, was a way of life. The stories are endless as the dog was a protective barker and was always in junk yard dog mode while the kid screamed at him to "shut-up". I taught the dog to obey him as the dog looked at me when the scene happened. As far as the kid knew he was in control. All 3 of us hung around together for years. When i was with another friend or friends the dog and kid hung together close by and had their own scene.

So..... to sum up
After the split with his mom i lost touch with him when she hooked up with another guy except for an occasional 10 minute meet. It was difficult to be with him for over 25 years. Then a few years ago I started hanging with him again. He's 35, married and has 2 kids. His memory of what we did together amazes me. He has off-beat nuances and attitudes he could only have gotten from me. I have married female friends with kids that comment that he never could have become what he is now without me, being how screwed up his home life was growing up. That and other positive comments never entered my mind.

The point is that every case of kids and parents is different and we do what's best, hopefully. The other point is that if it's a male kid the father presence is priceless. The mother's role is a little more than loving utility as the role model is the adult male that carves out survival attitudes when the kid is impressionable and lasts forever.

I had to relearn how to be together with him and learn not to be to heavy as the leader when we're doing projects together as this once a time kid is a mature adult. And what's interesting is being how he wasn't with me for so long my current world doesn't know of him. He's a huge 6'2" Irish-Polack and built like a brick s[]!!t house and I'm only 5'8". Our interaction and his junk yard dog protection act causes my people to wonder "What the f--- is going on". I don't tell our past and only briefly introduce him.

You must do the best you can, have endless patience, and stop the world for him when necessary, and be the alpha male to dial him in. It's also a good idea to keep a nanny around to clean up any mess while keeping her mouth shut.

There is no book method. If you're dogmatic on how it's done, you're the one screwed up




http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1299160351.jpg

Now you did it - another dead nanny kitten.

Funny, though, for every "extreme" example given, I actually had an image of someone I know (or several someones) floating around. These are real people. Extremely real people.:D

I'm loading up another kitten right now...

I have no doubt they are real people. But the question is whether they are the norm or outlyers. Kinda like the con/lib ratio in CA vs the real world :D

This thread got me thinking... I think I need a nanny! It is never to late!

Jeez you have a dirty nasty mind. No, just a nanny and her pussy. Cat.

Well since we're putting in 'orders' or wishlists...


A sugar daddy would be nice....:D:D:D

wow Ronin, that kid looks a lot like I did when I was little

My wife hasn't worked in over twenty years. Every time I bring it up, I get a sense of impending doom. My skin becomes chilled and I feel like I'm looking through the wrong end of binoculars.