mobile refrigerant (government gone wild)

[rick-l]

I read this in the Rock auto newsletter.

Apparently R-134, even though it doesn't destroy the ozone layer, has a high global warming potential. The new proprietary coolant they are coming up with, and enacting laws to require, is going to be very expensive and much less efficient. To discourage an old system retrofit they are going to tax R-134 to bring it to the level of the new stuff.

How about a retro fit to r-12?

[sammyg2]

Air conditioning will not be necessary when we are all living in caves.

[Rick Lee]

Isn't propane the best refrigerant? It's cheap and plentiful.

[cashflyer]

Hydrocool makes a 12, 134, 22, and 502 alternative. I bet Duracool and Envirosafe do also.

[billybek]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Isn't propane the best refrigerant? It's cheap and plentiful.

It is a very good refrigerant. At about 200 btu/lb (latent heat of vaporization) it is 3 times better than most HFC or HCFC refrigerants.
Ammonia is better! 550 Btu/lb and 8 to 10 times better than HFCs or HCFCs.
Water is better still... 970 BTUS/LB! It really is the best. Cheap and available almost everywhere!

[rick-l]

So you guys are ok with the fact that that can of r-134 you buy at wal-mart for $6 will cost $40 in a couple years, all carbon tax.

[RANDY P]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Isn't propane the best refrigerant? It's cheap and plentiful.

It is until you crash into something...

[Rick Lee]

Not at all. I think it's outrageous and will do everything I can to avoid the tax and skirt the law. I'll probably stock up on R-134 unless I can figure out a better way to upgrade my a/c system when the time comes. It's 15 yrs. old, has never been serviced and still blows ice cold.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

It is until you crash into something...

I ride a bike with several gallons of gasoline up against my body and don't worry about it catching fire.

[RANDY P]

they make Propane illegal cuz it's flammable when you crash.......same thing with Nitrogen in airplane tires- it contributes to the mess when you eat it.

rjp


(oops Nitrogen is non flammable so it's safer- that's why they use it in planes)

[RANDY P]

I was looking at trying to backdate my AC system in teh MBZ to R12-

in this climate it ain't gonna cut it. I fear a long summer rolling my Chevy- now THAT has AC

[cgarr]

Ammonia refrigeration maybe?

[GH85Carrera]

R-12 is now 35 to 40 bucks a pound. I remember when it was 99 cents a can.

[crustychief]

Originally Posted by cgarr

Ammonia refrigeration maybe?

Right up until it is the mainstream refrigerant, then someone will find a way to tax the crap out of it as well. Just like everything else we "need/gotta have".

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by cgarr

Ammonia refrigeration maybe?

Ammonia is still the refrigerant of choice in many industrial applications, and in many supermarket freezer cases.

[john70t]

H2O refrigeration mabye?
MTBE added oxidation....like chinese cat food added protein....

The best scientists are either scared, reassigned, or dead.

[m21sniper]

ammonia is poisonous isn't it? I can just imagine what the tree huggers would say about that...

[billybek]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

ammonia is poisonous isn't it? I can just imagine what the tree huggers would say about that...

A tablespoon of anhydrous ammonia in a sealed 10x10x8 room is immediately dangerous to life and health. (Industrial refrigeration mechanics scoff at this. Most can no longer smell ammonia, or anything else for that matter!)
On the positive side, it is a natural refrigerant, just like water.
It is being used more and more for different uses than the traditional industrial refrigeration.
One nice thing about it is that it is incredibly cheap.
One bad thing about it is it's toxic nature. Insurance companies have jacked the cost of insuring ice rinks cooled with ammonia refrigerants. The results have been interesting as the industry has worked to minimize refrigerant charge to reduce the risk the insurance companies face.
We replace refrigerants with those that do not have an equal refrigerating effect.
This means the machine is not as efficient as it could/should be.
This means we burn more coal to make the power to make the machine run because the machine isn't very efficient anymore.
That make sense to you?

[mattdavis11]

Dupont and Honeywell are making the new refrigerant that is mandated for Euro cars for the year model 2012. It's HFO1234YF. We probably won't see any mandate on this side of the pond until model year 2017.

That's what the new word is in the mobile ac community. Get your 134a in the winter at Sam's Club, unless you know someone who has a surplus and is liquidating, that is the way to go for now. Parts stores are in excess of $250 for a 30lb cylinder of 134a, wholesale.

If you think the freon is bad, wait until you guys have a compressor failure on your newer rides and you have to replace the condenser. You can't flush a micro-tube parallel flow condenser, and almost every vehicle is headed toward that design. I could go on and on, but won't.

Cut away pic of said condenser.

[Scuba Steve]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

(oops Nitrogen is non flammable so it's safer- that's why they use it in planes)

I thought that was because it's cold up there at 10,000-35,000 feet and whatever water vapor exists in the tire would freeze up and potentially cause damage.