Puppy with an Invisible Fence?
 

My daughter is dying to get a dog, and I'd like to have one as well. We'd be looking at a full-size outdoor only dog (wife is allergic), probably a Golden or Lab. Our stupid neighborhood HOA mandates wrought iron fencing for yards, and I'm not too keen on spending $5k to fence my back yard for said dog. Has anyone used a buried invisible fence with a puppy? I know they're effective with bigger dogs, and can't imagine that they wouldn't work with a puppy as well.

Skip the invisible fence, and go with an invisible puppy.

seriously, it's all in the training. ...puppies learn new tricks, I hear.

Funny you wrote this now. We just got a boxer puppy- actually it comes home with us in about 2 weeks, as it is only 6weeks old now. I am looking at an electric fence. I was told not to use one until the pup was about 6 months old- they are not capable of the training needed before that time. Will be interested to hear what others have learned. On adult dogs, with proper training, they work well.
gary

Plenty of full sized hypo allergenics fogs to choose from.

Giant schanuzer, poodle, airdale, Portugese water dog, bouvier etc......

Problem with those fences is if they do go thru it as some dogs will they won't come back.

Just my opinion but Goldens don't make for a good outside dog. They actually believe that they are people and will want to be inside with you. Sitting on your couch, eating at your table, sleeping in your bed, etc... I have a Golden and when I got him I knew he would be an inside dog. You may want a different breed for outdoors or maybe one with short hair and hypoallergenic for indoors.

Sorry, I don't know much about invisible fences but as someone mentioned it will be all about training. By the way, most dogs don't like to listen until they're at least 1.5 years. That's the age when all the earlier training makes sense to them. My dog is 11 but even when he was younger I could leave him outside (front of the house on cul de sac) for long periods and he will still be on my property.

Whatever you choose, good luck and take some photos.

Labs, unless they're working Labs, are the same. They are very, very social.

no offense but IMO there is no such thing as an outside dog unless he's pulling a sled in the ididerod.
Dogs need affection and attention and are by nature PACK animals, they are not solitary and do not do well by themselves.
How much time would you spend with it, an hour a day? Maybe two on good days?
Putting one in the back yard by himself is a really bad idea that has been perfected by ghetto breeders of pit bulls.
Maybe if you already had a dog or two he'd get enough social interaction.

I say the best golden in this case would be a golden fish.

We have an invisible "wireless" fence. The base unit is about the size of a breadmaker - actually looks like one to a degree. It runs off 120V. We bought ours at Home Depot - I think for around $250. It is a fantastic product - and no need to run wires around the yard.

PetSafe Wireless Fence | Instant Dog Fence PIF 300

We have a corner lot - around 3/4 an acre and we have the base unit in the main front hallway beside a curio cabinet. The dogs (45lb sheppard mix and a 55lb lab) can each go all the way to the front sidewalk, side yard sidewalk, the back yard property line and just over to the neighbors driveway.

The only complaint we have is that the dog collars are battery operated, designed to require a specific battery replacement offered by the mfr at about $5 a pop. We replace ours every 3 months or so.

EDIT: Failed to mention, both dogs are inside dogs. Let outside to do their business/exercise running after squirrels and little kids that wander onto the yard (JK!)

Totally agree. IMHO, dogs should not be outside only. Not at all fair to the dog. Please don't do this.

Labs, while very high on my list, are also very stubborn and tough dogs. Don't know that I would trust the little invisible BS. If there is a way around it, the lab will figure out and get out...

Re-think the breed...
 

Matt,

For all the reasons already mentioned you cannot have dog that only lives outside; particularly when children are involved. You've mentioned importantly that your wife is allergic to dogs...then a Golden or pure bred Lab is NOT for you.

IMHO you should have a dog for your daughter...lots of wonderful things can be learned and lots of adventures to be had :). But you need to go back to the drawing board and select a breed that will not cause your wife any allergy issues and is also family friendly. Check on the web for lists of hypo-allergenic breeds and then work your way through that list for suitable temperament etc.

Schnoodle or Labradoodle are two that I can think of...our Schnoodle is a fantastic, robust, reasonably high energy, sensational dog...she has remarkable tolerance, loves to rumble and is a great 'schmoocher'. She gets along with most of the neighbourhood cats, dogs etc and all our friends who have allergies are fine with her. LOVES people...

Ask the vets here - they are all wonderful and know their stuff ;). They could recommend more breeds and speak with authority about the temperament/suitability of each.

GET A DOG; one who becomes a real part of your family, don't banish him/her outside...your daughter will love you more than ever :)

ooops...just saw stomachmonkey's post - more hypo-allergenic dogs to choose from...

I have had an outside dog nearly all my life in NW Ohio (as do many folks in our rural farming community). They do just fine provided they get to sleep in a doghouse or garage. We have an underground fence for our Australian Shepard and it works fine, but he was probably 6-8 months old when we put the fence in.

Looks like the OP'er is in Wichita, Kansas. Scalding hot muggy summers, blistering cold winters with intense thunderstorms and tornados in between. I can't think of a single logical reason to get a dog and keep it outside in that environment. There are hypo-allergenic dogs, many are listed above. If that isn't an option, it may be more than your wife's allergies standing in the way. Please be honest with yourself before going down this path.

Having owned dogs all my life (3 currently), I would never have a dog if they couldn't be part of the family in every regard. Not fair to them, not fair to your family.

My thoughts.

BTW... Dr Dogface above is a retired Veterinarian. Heed his advice, if not mine.

I agree that a dog should be part of the family. I can't stand to see a dog that's left outside all the time. The invisible fence if for people that are too lazy to train the dog to follow direction. If you don't have time to train a dog, you don't have time to own a dog. I'm not trying to be ugly, just calling it as I see it.

x2

My Bro has a black Lab that that he raised from when the pup was a few weeks old..

He installed the invisible fence..

That Lab is now 10 years old... and will not cross the line where the wire for the Invisible fence was...what is really funny is that he has not had to put the collar on the dog for years.. You have to make a "path" or "safe zone" so the dog can get out of your yard...Into your car etc..



The training worked...my bros dog will not cross the line... and has not had the collar on for years..

Same here Tim. While I understand the sentiment of those who consider a dog one of their kids, I disagree. Despite the attachment, it's still an animal. If I get a dog it will live in a doghouse that is in the shade in the summer and sheltered in the winter, with a heat lamp to keep it warm. I know many people with outside dogs, they're no worse off than dogs that live inside all of their lives. In fact I would argue that some owners are doing their dogs a disservice by leaving them inside all of the time, my parents have already had to have surgery on their 6 year old Golden's back legs because the dog could barely walk. Inside dog, small house, it doesn't get much exercise. At least a dog in a fenced yard can roam without constraint.

Your responses have convinced me that I won't get a puppy without a fence though, the invisible thing just isn't solid enough.

is that 24K gold over sterling wrought fence? I take it this is not a side yard fence.....

If the puppy gets out, then whip it. Whip that pu....ah, fergetit.

I've lived here my entire life, how on earth have I survived? It's a daily apocalypse living in Kansas.......:rolleyes:

My back yard is approximately 80x40. I would fence that entire area in which to abuse my dog.:cool: I haven't shopped around much, but it appears that an 8' section of wrought iron fence is a little over $100. That's material only, and doesn't include posts, hardware, or any install cost.

You're clearly not fencing over 3,000 lineal feet of backyard though.

Guesstimate on my part once you add posts, concrete, a gate, and someone to put it in. I could DIY, but I have way to many projects going already including finishing my basement.

Clearly not enough time spent out in the doghouse! :D:pSmileWavy

Ehhh.. 'its just an animal'... if you're already under that mindset then do the puppy a favor and not even bring it home. As Sammy said, they are social and pack animals not solitary. And just because a they can survive outside in a doghouse in the shade with 90 degree ambient temps doesn't make it right.

With the benefit of heat, air conditioning and a roof. I lived in Tulsa for 4 years...similar climate. Regarding the dog you mentioned with the leg issue, I don't believe anyone suggested a dog should be restrained in-doors like veal. Assuming you live in a residential area, yes, you should fence the yard for him/her and use it for exercise and bathroom (by the way...even though it's an animal, you'll have to clean up the poop daily also. Pinworms are no fun for your dog).

And one obvious omission....why not just get a dog that doesn't shed or dander as mentioned previously? That way it could live a normal, social existence as part of your family. Indoors to sleep and eat, outdoors to play and exercise. Seems rather logical, no?

If your mindset is that it's just livestock...you're wrong. Over the last thousand years or so, they've become quite domesticated. If there's another reason you can't bring an animal in the house, why not get a goat?

My wife is yet to encounter a dog that at least doesn't give her itchy, watery eyes, including some of the hypoallergenic ones. My kids seem to have inherited that from her. A dog inside is not an option.

I'm not going to argue the fact that a dog is an animal, I know that to the hardcore dog lovers they're on the same level as people. My mom is in that same department, and it's made visiting their small house a nightmare with my family. Small house, Golden Retriever, hair everywhere, allergic wife and kids, mom that thinks her dog (child) will die if it goes outside.....good times. One of the reasons why we rarely visit the house, and why I'm rather sensitive to the topic. I really like and enjoy dogs, but in my book people > animals.

But let's face facts here, neither of us is going to convince the other that we're wrong. I found my answer regarding the fence, so let's just move on.

Matt, If you put in the underground wire, it would be wise to draw it up on paper where you buried it exactly. I have had a couple breaks in mine over the years and it can be a major PITA to find the break. I have about 2000' of wire in mine and it goes under three stone driveways. Australian Shepards LOVE to chase things.... It takes about a week for our dog to figure out that there is a break in the line at which point he will start chasing cars, motorcycles, deer, taxiing airplanes etc. The dog getting himself killed would suck, but would not be the end of the world...... Having to pay for the mandatory teardown of a customer's aircraft engine and a new constant speed prop due to a prop strike could be devastating financially.

We are on our second collar, but suprisingly they hold up pretty well considering our dog takes a swim in the pond multiple times each day in the summer.

My dog hangs out with me in the hangar/workshop nearly every day and usually sleeps on a foam pad in our garage during winter and thunderstorms, but he spends most of his time outdoors. Every time I sweep my workshop, I end up which a huge pile of hair. Our house would be a muddy/hairy/smelly mess if that dog spent any time in it.

Once an outside dog, always an outside dog. They love to come inside, however. I have an 8yr old female chocolate lab., short hair, 90lbs.

She would love to have a yard, with a dogloo.

Edit: I'm not pandering my dog.

I've had a number of invisible fences.. Get it from Walmart or Cabelas or the like MUCH cheaper than the brand name ($150 vs $1500). The wire doesn't have to be burried at all FYI..
My labradoodle doesn't shed BTW,, hypoallergenic .. she sleeps on my bed so does't see alot of outdoors unless I'm playing with her or hunting

Like most others, I see no reason to buy a dog only to force it to stay outside. Its not fair to your wife to have the dog around if she is allergic and your child will quickly grow bored with the dog and not spend any time outside with it...especially during in-climate weather. I am guessing that once the weather gets bad, the only human contact that dog will get is when you take its food out a couple times a day. Not a good life and a waste of money for you.

Regarding invisible fence: I have one, and it works well. There is a lot of training involved though. You cant simply crank the voltage up and walk away, expecting the dog to train itself. Also, the idea that you can train the dog to obey boundries without any kind of fence is a gamble IMO. You can never be 100% sure that something wont come along and entice that dog to disobey its training...perhaps another dog. For me, it wasnt worth the risk

While on this subject, for those that do use invisible fences, PLEASE dont run the fence out to the front sidewalk. This is just not neighborly. People like to take walks around the neighborhood without having a barking dog charge within 3 feet of the sidewalk every time we pass with our child or pet. Keep dogs in the back yard so that your neighbors can enjoy the sidewalk. The added benefit is that you dont have dog piles in your front lawn. :D

FWIW, here is a link showing the tool I made/used to bury my 2000' of wire. It worked pretty good and even buried the wire across three stone driveways.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/339489-tool-burying-invisible-dog-fence.html

I will join the others urging you to NOT get a Golden or Lab - sure a dog is an animal, BUT they're on the same level as people in terms of their need for social contact. This is not an issue of intellectual capacity; it is an issue of emotional need -- and yes, they do suffer.

Will your wife react to a poodle or other very hypo-allergenic breed?

So your wife AND at least some of your kids are allergic... and you think it's a good idea to get a dog. :rolleyes:

I can see Tim's perspective, and with the amount of time he spends outside and in the shop, his dog probably gets a fair amount of attention. The situation you've outlined, not so much.

[QUOTE]My wife is yet to encounter a dog that at least doesn't give her itchy, watery eyes, including some of the hypoallergenic ones. My kids seem to have inherited that from her. A dog inside is not an option./QUOTE]

Then why even get a dog?

If you went to a shelter to adopt one you would be declined.

Sorry but you and your family are not good candidates.

You come off selfish and self indulgent.

Can I quote myself here? I think it's insane that I'm being insulted because I intend to keep an ANIMAL outside. Sorry guys, I know you love your dogs but it's still an ANIMAL. Not a person, not a child, an ANIMAL. I know a lot of folks with outdoor only dogs, it's why they grow long hair in the winter and shed for the summer. As for the amount of time my family would spend with it, who are you to judge?

I'm not going to be dragged into the nutty animal lover debate, I get enough of that with my mother. I got my answer, so for that I say thanks. I'm done with this thread.

Matt.
Nobody should insult you...that isnt fair to you. But with that said, you might consider the wisdom of "dog people".

What if a person logged onto the 911 forum here and stated that he wants to buy an early 911 for his only car. He then states that he has no mechanical ability, only has $5,000 to spend and has three kids and a wife. Oh, and he plans to park the car on the street all year round.

The response that he gets wouldn't be what he wanted to hear, but that doesn't change the wisdom and sincere intentions of people who have more experience in these matters. What would your opinion be when he blew off all the 'stupid 911 people' and did what he wanted?

Your mother may be a "nutty animal lover" and it is true that some people take it too far, but the fact remains that probably most of the people who are commenting here have a good balance view of pet ownership and have seen the negative outcome when people who are not empathetic to the needs of pets ignore sound reasoning and do what they want anyway.

get a cat

every one from "animal lovers," to "dog people" to professional scientists who study animal behavior is telling you the same thing

one more time - it is not about fur length or insulation -- for a few breeds, especially, it is about social isolation

There is a profound difference between a working dog an a pet.

A working dog has a job that occupies it's time and gives it purpose. It will do just fine living outside.

Your entire family is allergic.

They will not be less allergic because the dog is outside.

They will go outside to play with it, have a reaction and leave.

Your family is not a good candidate for a pet dog.

Sorry but that's a fact.

You should under no circumstances get a dog as a pet.

WTF? Having a dog in the backyard is as American as apple pie.