Choosing a college

[scottmandue]

My stepdaughter just turned 17 and is looking into college.

I never attended college (hard to believe I know)

Her cousins are about to graduate and they tell her "you have to go walk around the campus... once you set foot on the grounds you will know if it is right for you".

I have since heard the same from others who have attended college.

Now silly me... I would pick a university that had an excellent program in whatever I wanted to study (SD wants to be a physical therapist... of course in a year she may want to be an astronaut... ) and a college that was in my price range.

Cousins also insist she should should join a sorority for social reasons... my best friend joined a frat, I went to a few parties... pretty much an excuse to meet girls and practice debauchery.

For those of you who have been to college, how did you pick the university?

Thanks in advance,

[gprsh924]

Found schools that had strong programs in the area I was interested in (business). Then narrowed it down to schools that seemed fun and interesting based on reputations. Then visited. I was literally on campus for less than a minute before I decided that I couldn't spend 4 years anywhere else but Miami of Ohio. A year since graduating, I still feel the same way. Very expensive 4 year party, but somehow I manage to get solid grades an graduate with full time employment.

To really be enjoy the experience, you have to find a school that suits you in a balanced manner. It can't be all about one thing (school or fun). Ymmv

[scottmandue]

I should throw out that is anyone knows of a university with an excellent PT program... that doesn't cost an arm and a leg (cough USC cough).

SD is in Oregon and is looking at schools in that state.

Wife is moving down to live with me in So Cal so schools in our area are possible.

Although even if she stays in Oregon she will have to move and we will have to fly to visit so anyplace is an option.

[Rick Lee]

I remember my own college tour very well. While I didn't know right away when I stepped foot on campus that I wanted to go there, I did usually know right away if that school wasn't for me. At that time I really, really had my heart set on American University and wanted to become a Foreign Service Officer after that. I went to a prep school, had decent grades and my college counselor told me to apply early. I didn't get deferred, I got flat out rejected. I was crushed. And I later got into NYU and Drexel. Go figure it out.

Years later when I moved to the DC area after college, I met a ton of people who went to AU and I don't recall one of them ever saying they liked the place. So I'm glad I didn't get accepted. It seems every huge disappointment in my life later turns out to be a huge blessing in disguise. Oh, and I passed the Foreign Service written exam a few weeks ago.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Pick the schools with the best programs in the area she wants to study. After that, other criteria I used to consider was who was giving me the best assistance/incentives/scholarships, etc. The one that gave me the right "vibe" was important too - remember you're investing a lot of time and money there so it's not inappropriate to rule out a place with otherwise good "metrics" just because it doesn't feel right. At the end of the day, it's better to be in a place you like which will help you get As rather than to be in a place you hate which will discourage you and maybe you'll end up with Cs even if the former school is ranked not quite as high as the latter...

I'm more impressed by an A student from a good school than a B or C student from a great school... YMMV.

WRT the sorority/greek thing - it's up to her. Let her try it. I went greek when I was a freshman and it was a fun experience and helped with a lot of my social phobias. They're not all just keg parties (although those do happen).

[cantdrv55]

UC Davis has a very good physical therapy program. There is a Pelican, seldom on the board anymore though, who owns several PT clinics in the SF Bay Area. I think he went to UC Davis or at least has taught there.

[Rich76_911s]

I can't help much on recommending how you find a college. I went to the University of Colorado because I loved the campus and it was affordable (I was in-state).

If you don't mind me making a recommendation though. I would not choose a school based on the best PT program. I would even highly suggest not majoring in Physical Therapy as an undergrad. Not to be rude, but she'll waste her time and your money getting an undergraduate degree in Physical Therapy.

To be a Physical Therapist requires a Masters degree in PT. Have her take the required courses to get into PT school (Chem, Physics, Bio, Anatomy, etc), and meanwhile get a major either in one of the core sciences or business. An undergrad degree in PT is respected by no-one. Ask me how I know, Kinesiology & Applied Physiology major '01 (PS the spell checker doesn't even recognize Kinesiology). I worked harded than any business major I knew, but they all got decent jobs after graduation, I couldn't get anything beyond the night shift at a 24 hour fitness.

If she still wants to be a PT in 4 years, volunteering in a prof's lab, internships with physical therapists, and maybe volunteering at the hospital combined with a core science or business degree will set her up much better than a PT undergrad. If in 4 years she decides going back to school to make next to nothing as a PT isn't worth it, a core science or business degree will open A LOT more doors than a PT undergrad.

Don't let her do psychology either!

Going into the greek system depends on the school she chooses. Some schools it is a near requirement, some it's a personal choice, and others have no greek system at all.

[jpachard]

All good advice above but I would encourage her to avoid the whole frat-sorority nonsense. Having lived next to a few frats while I was in Boston I came away absolutely appalled at the way many frat boys treated women. One evening I came home late only to find that our next door frat boys had thrown a girl out on the sidewalk in 0°F with just a sweater and jeans because she had gotten sick inside the house. She was so drunk she couldn't walk and I hate to think what would have happened to her had I not come home when I did. This was just one of many incidences I got to observe from these idiots.

[Seahawk]

I went to college in the Pleistocene Era so my experience will be of little help.

However, my daughter is just completing her freshman year at ASU and has done extremely well.

Her perspective was the following:

- She is a very accomplished equestrian, so that aspect was very high on her list, probably highest.

- Academics. She was NHS, etc. so she also focused on her prospective major. She won a number of local and state FBLA competitions as well. This is the only time I weighted in: The school had to have a solid reputation in business, which both my kids will major or minor in. Not their choich.

- Distance from home, Maryland, was not an issue. I frankly encouraged her to apply heavily out west.

- Site visit is imperative, which we did at a number of places.

- She applied to a broad spectrum of schools in every part of the country. It is odd how the process unfolded: She was accepted into some "stretch" schools and was wait-listed at one of her "safe" schools and bounced at another. There seemed little rhythm to the overall application dance.

Her decision frankly came down to her site visit at ASU. My wife accompanied her and they were both stunned at how organized and professional both the staff and student support were. We continue to be impressed. The horse program was the icing: she has ridden all over the PAC 10 and has had just a great series of experiences.

She did also join a sorority, something which surprised my wife and me (we are both non-Greeks). That experience has also been great. The sorority, Chi Omega, has a very good rep and Arden feels that it greatly assisted her college transition at a large school. Next year, as a soph, she will be a member of the directors board.

So, that's her experience. I frankly was much less concerned about which school she attended as I was making sure she understood what a privilege it is to get the opportunity to attend a university, that she must maintain her academic and personal standards, and that SHE wanted to attend.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by jpachard

All good advice above but I would encourage her to avoid the whole frat-sorority nonsense. Having lived next to a few frats while I was in Boston I came away absolutely appalled at the way many frat boys treated women. One evening I came home late only to find that our next door frat boys had thrown a girl out on the sidewalk in 0°F with just a sweater and jeans because she had gotten sick inside the house. She was so drunk she couldn't walk and I hate to think what would have happened to her had I not come home when I did. This was just one of many incidences I got to observe from these idiots.

Holy broadbrush.

[jpachard]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Holy broadbrush.

Notice I said many, not all. When you have to live next to that day in and day out, numerous calls to the local LE because of lousy behavior, throwing trash out windows etc, etc. One gets a bad taste in one's mouth.

Add to that I know someone who was gang raped by a couple of frat boys on a ski trip, I don't have a very high opinion of the whole thing.

Sorry to sound like I'm being harsh but these are my experiences. Everyone's are different.

[porsche4life]

Definitely... You have to like the campus...

I picked mine based first on my prospective major, pharmacy, which limited me to two schools in the state. I ended up where I am b/c it was cheaper, they gave me a good scholarship, and it has the reputation as the best Pharm school in the state...

[74-911]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

and a college that was in my price range.

Is a $150K Bachelors degree from an expensive private school any better than a much less expensive one from a good state university ???

Unless you have someone footing all the bills for you, this should be a major part of the decision. Have read to many stories (and know of a few examples personally) of kids coming out of expensive universities with degrees that will earn them a $30K salary (if they can find a job at all) and they have $125K+ in loans to payoff. A BA in Music Education and $150K in loans does not make for a good future (an specific example that was in the news last spring)..

[porsche4life]

Don't rule out smaller schools either... SWOSU is one of the smaller schools in OK, but it is a very good school, with a very diverse curriculum.

[id10t]

Easier to get into med school than PT school - or it was when I was working in the field. Had a coworker with a 4.0 gpa, all prereqs, experience as an aide, didn't make it in 4 years in a row. Year of the student murders in gainesville she was alternate #4, 3 people dropped out.

[scottmandue]

Thanks Rich and everyone... food for thought about the physical therapist idea.

She is 17, she has gone from wanting to be a doctor, to a school teacher, she does a lot of sports and ballet so that is where the PT thing is coming from.

Like I say in the next year she may change her mind and decide to major in who knows what.

[id10t]

The comment above about needing a masters degree - not true. A BS is required to take a licensing exam (at least here in Florida) which is all you really need.

Also, she may want to look into the PTA degree. It is an AS, taught at many more schools including community colleges, still has instant jobs, and still pays pretty good.

But I'd have her volunteer in an acute care setting first - I got several students to drop out thinking they were going to be all sports medicine and such but then we got into the wound care aspects of PT... be sure she can handle it.

[artplumber]

Like I say in the next year she may change her mind and decide to major in who knows what

So what she really needs is a good liberal arts college

[McLovin]

I assume she will only be applying to schools that have programs that meet her interests.

In that case, I'd highly consider going to the highest rated school she gets into. Since you are in California and mention "price range" as being an issue, I'd focus on California's world class public colleges, which are an absolute steal for California residents (if you can get into them). Berkeley, UCLA if she has top grades/test scores, etc., most of the other UCs are very good and are competitive, too.

As far as sororities/fraternities, this is the final answer:

She should NOT rush/join as a freshman. She should live in the dorms her first year. The dorms are the best way for a freshman, living away from home for the first time, to integrate into the school, make new friends from a diverse pool of people, learn about the school, etc.

After that, she can make a much more informed decision re sorority. I was in a fraternity, and thought the greek system was a great experience (both for fraternity and sorority). Like most things in life, it is what you make of it.

As far as campus visit, yeah, I think that it's a good idea to at least go check out a school in person before committing to go there for 4 (or 5 or 6) years.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by artplumber

So what she really needs is a good liberal arts college

^^^ this

Unless a student is incredibly focused/motivated/mature, choosing based on one particular program is a mistake. I was actually pretty mature, having taking 4 years off after high school to be in the real world, and I entered as a music major and left with a chemistry degree. I am a huge fan of small liberal arts colleges, especially for kids that haven't quite found themselves. Given the rising costs of public schools along with the inability to get courses in a lot of areas (leading to a longer stay in college), the cost difference isn't as great as it used to be. Down here in SoCal, I'd look at Occidental, Claremont Colleges (where I used to teach), LMU, etc.

The "vibe" of a school is important, but again, for an 18 year old that will be a moving target. For undergrad I chose based on location and the fact that I knew the head of the music department (lived around the corner from my parents). I went to a Catholic university and it ended up being a great fit. I avoided the Greek stuff and commuted so it was different than if I'd lived on-campus, but I still was involved in intramural sports and was always on-campus in the lab, studying, etc. For grad school I based it more on specific faculty I wanted to work with, but that is a different deal. Also I did make a good choice in that regard - have a backup plan. If there is only one person you're interested in working for, you could be stuck if they are a prick or don't have room. Better to go somewhere that has a variety of interesting people. For me I was having a tough time deciding for grad school between MIT, Princeton and Berkeley. That was until I visited Caltech. I almost turned around when I hit LA traffic (was driving up from San Diego), but I stuck it out. Within 30 minutes of being on campus I knew that was where I wanted to go.