Gun cleaning question

[Wil Ferch]

After many years away from shooting.... I am back. So some "update" questions.

Cleaning....

- have some lead and copper jacket fouling of my pistol barrels. What is the best, most effective way of getting barrels clean? Still the old old-standby Hoppes #9?...or other stuff? In either case....what "method" works best? Allowing some "soak" time? Brass bristle brushes still the way?

- In the past I bought some pre-soaked patches that did an effective lead clean-out. Can't remember the brand-name. Something like this out there too, nowadays?

If it matters....applies to my .45 and .22 ( obviously lead-only for the .22)

Lastly.....trying to get some extra mag clips for my original Browning Challenger ( first series, Belgian made) .22 pistol......but holy smokes !..... some internet searches are saying $150 a pop? Is this for real ??

[redstrosekNic]

I always use Hoppes #9, which I soak into patches and run through the barrel with a rod. There is actually a pretty good directions portion on the back of the bottle, which answers questions based on hard to clean deposits, etc... I wouldn't waste money on pre-soaked patches, as it takes about 3 seconds to make your own.

[legion]

Yes, Hoppes #9 is still the best (IMO) for removing lead and copper fouling.

I generally put some barrel foam (you can get the stuff at Wal-Mart) down the barrel, let it sit for 20 minutes, then clean normally with Hoppes #9 and then some powder solvent. Only other modification from tradition is that I use a caliber-specific brass cleaning jag. It does a much better job of pushing the patch into the rifling.

That is, that's what I used to do until I bought an ultrasonic cleaner. Now I just field strip (and remove wood grips, if the pistol has them), toss it in for 40 minutes, run a few dry patches down the barrel to push out the very loose debris, blow dry with an air compressor, and oil. It takes longer as far as elapsed time is concerned, but it is a much more thorough cleaning and I'm only actually doing anything for 10 of the 50 minutes it takes to clean by this method.

You can pick up a cheap ultrasonic cleaner that will fit most sub-compacts for $100, or one with a built-in heater that will fit anything short of a Desert Eagle for $300.

[azasadny]

Wil,
I use Hoppes and brass bore brushes. I apply it liberally, run the brush or BoreSnake, then repeat it for the next two or three days, depending on how much gunk was present. I've soaked parts in acetone for a few minutes, then brushed with a bore brush or toothbrush and that has worked well. Be careful not to get any chemicals or solvents on the grips. Brass wool also works very well to clean carbon and fouling from parts. Don't use steel wool! I cleaned some very cruddy shotgun choke tubes with brass wool dipped into acetone or mineral spirits. I use Rig grease, very lightly applied to the parts when I'm done.

[RWebb]

Jeez - I used that stuff 50 years ago - no improvements since??

[azasadny]

There are many, many "new fangled" products out there, but I still prefer Hoppe's #9 and I've tried quite a few of the others. Birchwood Casey makes some decent products, but nothing works as well and smells as fantastic as Hoppes!! Must be the banana oil in it that smells so good.

[abisel]

For my pistols, revolvers and competition AR, I use BrakeKleen sprayed down the bore from the breach end to blow out all the loose powder residue. Then I would blow dry it with the air compressor.

I use Kroil to remove stubborn powder residue and to loosen the copper/lead fouling. That stuff is amazing as a bore cleaner. Use brass bore brushes and try to very carefull at the crown of the muzzle. If you nick the crown, it will throw off the accuracey. Ask me how I know.

Several strokes of Kroil and let it sit 5 or 10 minutes. Followed up with a pointed jag and a bunch of dry patches until the patches are clean.

For really fouled barrels, I use Sweet's 7.62. An ammonia based solvent that turns the copper green. Several soaked bore brushes down the bore and several strokes up and down the bore followed by letting it sit 5 minutes. Then I use a worn out bore brush with a patch wrapped around it. I would shove it down the bore, remove the patch and pull the rod back out. Wrap a clean patch around the brush and down the bore again. I would repeat until the patch is clean.

[azasadny]

I want to try Kroil but I can't find it in my local stores. David (targa911s) recommended it and I can't find it. I do like the Rig grease he recommended for use after cleaning is done.

I've found that a day or two after cleaning, you should run some patches down the barrel and Q-tip the breech, etc... because more gunk invariably comes out of the metal and crevices...

[abisel]

Your best bet to buy Kroil is online directly from them. You can get single cans, but you may want to buy quantity.
KanoLabs.com

They'll ship it right to your door.

[azasadny]

Thanks, I'll do that!

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by Wil Ferch

Lastly.....trying to get some extra mag clips for my original Browning Challenger ( first series, Belgian made) .22 pistol......but holy smokes !..... some internet searches are saying $150 a pop? Is this for real ??

Yes it is, sorry, but a Colt Huntsman, or Holt ... A pistol that looks a bit like your Belgain made Challenger, has a similar magazine. You need to file down the bit on the magazine that operates the "hold open after last round" function. You will find details if you search this Browning - RimfireCentral.com Forums forum.

[azasadny]

Be wary of after-market magazines. They may be cheaper than the original, but what good is that if they cause the gun to jam constantly? I've had good results with MecGar mags and my wife's new Ruger LCP came with Ruger mags that are made by MecGar. I went through several mags for a Walther PP before I found a MecGar and it works reliably.

[Jeff Higgins]

More guns are damaged from over cleaning than from any other cause. I suppose the admonition to keep them clean is a carry over from first the black powder, then the mercuric primer days. Well, today, that is all behind us. There is simply no need to be as attentive about cleaning as our forefathers. As a matter of fact, it's probably best that we aren't.

My .22's only get cleaned when I change brands of ammo. That could be thousands and thousands of rounds, over many, many years. Then, when they do get cleaned, it takes quite awhile to re-season the bore to the different lube on the new ammo. I own several .22's that are older than me, and were treated this way by the old guys that passed them on to me, that shoot as well as the day they were new and have spotless, shiny bores (when I clean them and take a look).

My handguns get cleaned with about half a dozen wet patches (either #9 or Shooters' Choice) in succession, followed by two or three dry ones to dry them out. That's it, that's all. And again, many are older than me, and have mint-bright bores.

My rifles get the same treatment - half a dozen wet patches followed by enough dry ones to mostly dry it out. I use a bore guide religiously. Even the black powder match rifles get this, although the first cleaning is with water only, then dried, then followed up with #9. The only difference beyond that is they get cleaned the day they are shot, since black powder fouling is mostly salt, and highly corrosive.

Under no circumstances whatsoever will I ever run a copper brush through a bore. This is wholly unnecessary, and probably the very best way to damage a barrel. Every one of old mentors would run that copper brush into a suitable bodily orifice on me if they ever caught me with one...

Visible copper fouling in a handgun barrel is an absolute non-issue. It's perfectly normal and does no harm whatsoever. You will drive yourself nuts trying to get it all out. The only firearms where this can even become an issue are the extremely high velocity, high pressure rifle rounds. For those, we have some pretty potent ammonia based solvents, like Sweet's 7.62, that work wonders to get the copper out. These solvents also ruin a lot of barrels when miss used, or over used.

Anyway, the long and the short of it is not to over clean. There really isn't anything to worry about as far as letting them sit uncleaned anymore. When you do clean them, a cursory few wet patches followed by a few dry ones, and you're good. Use whatever solvent smells best to you...

[John Rogers]

Harbor Freight has their deluxe Inspection Scope (bore scope) on special and I bought one and it ended up at $208. I ckecked both my 45-70 black powder rifles (original Rolling Block and a new Sharps) and there was a bit of lead in the lands. I generally use #9 and bronze brushes also but then I tried the "Chore Boy" method and wrapped some of one of the copper pads around a brass brush and ran it in a drill with some #9 and then some patches and the first ones were really black. The ones a few days before had come out clean after several passes! A recheck of the borescope showed a really shinny bore with nothing in the lands!

Here's the link: Digital Inspection Camera with Recorder

The cashier gave me their 20% discount on top of the sale price AND I had a coupon for another free flashlite!

[emcon5]

Hoppes #9 is good stuff, but it is primarily a general powder/lead solvent. There are much better copper solvents out there.

Sweets 7.62 and Barnes CR-10 are both very strong ammonia based copper solvents. I don't use brushes with them, just patches. If you use a brush, make sure it is nylon, because both will eat a bronze brush.

Run a soaked patch through, and let it sit for 10-15 minutes. Then a couple of clean patches. On a badly fouled gun, the patches will come out bright blue. Repeat until the patches come out clean.

This, however is awesome:
Hoppe's 9 - No. 9 Air Freshener

I am with Jeff on the cleaning guidelines. I really don't clean all that much, except Milsurps with corrosive ammo, and even then only enough to neutralize the salts.

[targa911S]

More barrels have been ruined by bore brushes than not cleaning them that is for sure. DO NOT use copper cutting agents on a nickel plated gun. It will eat away at the copper base of the metal and the plating will start to flake off. FWIW my CZ 17 hmr shoots much better dirty than it does clean. I really like Cleansoil for a good all around cleaner and solvent. RIG as a lube and rust preventative.

[Tim Hancock]

I rarely clean my guns and when I do, it is typically done mainly to clean/lightly lube trigger mechanisms to restore smooth trigger action on competition guns. I will also clean if a gun is exposed to dirt/sand at windy ranges or if exposed to rain. The barrels get very little attention.

[Seahawk]

Wow...interesting what you learn and when. It seems I've been doing this the wrong way since my Grandfather showed me how to clean guns 45 years ago!

I never thought to questions his methods at all...my Dad was also in the clean after every use camp.

One question, Jeff, what is a bore guide?

[emcon5]

It is a guide to keep the cleaning rod from chewing up the barrel, and keeps solvent from dripping into the action/trigger.

If you scroll about half way down, there is a discussion here:
Collecting and Shooting the Surplus Rifle - M-Pro 7 Report

That one is for cleaning bolt rifles from the breech end, there are also guides made for cleaning from the muzzle if the breech in is not accessible, like on an M1 Garand.

[Wil Ferch]

Interesting.... my mantra/learnings was---> if any fouling was left in the "corners" of the lands/grooves....it was said the metal "underneath" the fouling was then subject to corrosion, resulting in a "pitted" barrel. Or is "pitted" barrel syndrome only for the old ammo that uses corrosive primers?

Meaning?---> if we now follow the "do not over-clean" idea....would that smidgen of junk left behind on the sharp corners of the groove/land area...be a problem or not.

BTW.....just to add complexity to the problem, my Gov't 45 has been totally treated with an "Armoloy" surface....the entire gun including the inner surface of the barrel. An "industrial chrome" plating service that is extremely thin ( less than 0.0001 " thick) and is used by industry for cutting machines and such. Supposed to limit wear and corrosion. Been applied over 25 years ago and still looks good. Don't know if this process or company is still in vogue or in business..

Just found this moments ago as part of a quick web search--- > http://www.armoloy-il.com/corporate/are.html

PS - ---I have a nice, vintage Colt Woodsman mag that even allows the bottom-plate to be removed for proper cleaning. Years ago I tried ( not very hard) to make this fit the Challenger, the grip angles are identical and the build-architecture is the same, but I can't remember why it didn't work...I think the hold-down button interfered or was on the wrong side?....can't recall.

Nice getting back in the saddle on this hobby again..... I thank you all for the comments so far.