Wolves - Anyone Notice...?

[Jeff Higgins]

That Congress, led by the Idaho and Montana contingent, finally managed to get them delisted as "endangered"? Seems they snuck a rider in on the budget bill, when everyone was in a panic (or excited about) the federal gubmint (finally?) shutting down.

This marks the first time a species has been delisted by an Act of Congress. Wolves had already been delisted by the Interior Department, but that action had been overturned by some federal judge who felt he was a better wildlife biologist or something.

This now leaves wolf management in the hands of the states, where it has always properly belonged. State wildlife biologists and game managers can now manage their wolf populations, along with their other wildlife populations. It gives them more control over the big picture, without some arbitrary, emotionally and politically driven wildcard in the mix over which they have had no control.

Wolves exert a great deal of infuence over other species' viability in any given area where they are found. Local wildlife managers were having one hell of a time managing everything else that shared their habitat, with the "hands off" mandate that came along with their status as an "endangered species". That has now changed. Now we can have responsible professionals managing their populations locally, rather than special interest groups (via the courts) managing them from afar.

Some won't see it this way, but this is actually a victory for the wolves. With the introduction of responsible, responsive local management of this top tier predator, we have increased their chances of survival and acceptance. Locals will now feel they have a voice, and a way to manage an animal that they have all felt was more or less rammed down their throats by clueless urban ninnies who wouldn't know a wolf from a coyote.

[RWebb]

I noticed.

yes, it was done a budget rider and there are 3 or so law suits already filed over that; may well be dismissed

delisting by the Interior Department, was "overturned" by some federal judge who felt he was a better judge of what was legal or not - that just means DOI (FWS) has to do it over, correctly

IIRC, wolves were managed as an experimental population, which gave more mgmt. flexibility than most listed species

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by RWebb

I noticed.

yes, it was done a budget rider and there are 3 or so law suits already filed over that; may well be dismissed

The suits or the delisting?

Originally Posted by RWebb

delisting by the Interior Department, was "overturned" by some federal judge who felt he was a better judge of what was legal or not - that just means DOI (FWS) has to do it over, correctly

I only wish that were true. This was a pretty clear case of judicial activism, IMHO. All (previously agreed upon) population targets had been met, and the DOI followed established procedure when they delisted. It all boiled down to someone being unhappy about that and, in the finest American tradition, finding a sympathetic court.

Originally Posted by RWebb

IIRC, wolves were managed as an experimental population, which gave more mgmt. flexibility than most listed species

No local control over their management, however. That was always the rub. And, being such an emotional and political lightening rod, most of the "management" that did occur was in the courts. A real mess.

[RWebb]

I think the Env'l groups who have filed suit will have standing problems, as well as some other problems in their suits.

I don't agree re the activism comment, we do have laws respecting wildlife in the US and they need to be observed by the govt. not just by hunters, trappers, hat-makers, collectors, etc.

Local mgmt. is easily bowled over by powerful interests, so...

Wolves do have a high reproductive rate, so we'll see what happens. They might get re-listed if they decline, so the states need to think about that. The other thing the states need to think about is no longer being able to finger-point at the feds. after delisting.

This is the 3rd time Congress has "reached down" and messed with FWS over an endangered species - snail darter and spotted owl were the other two. Could be another, but I don't know of one.

[vash]

best movie ever about kevin costner acting like kevin costner in a different costume.

[gtc]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

This now leaves wolf management in the hands of the states. ... It gives them more control over the big picture, without some arbitrary, emotionally and politically driven wildcard in the mix over which they have had no control.

Now we can have responsible professionals managing their populations locally, rather than special interest groups (via the courts) managing them from afar.

With the introduction of responsible, responsive local management ... Locals will now feel they have a voice...

I don't much about the effects of growing wolf populations, but there are a lot of assumptions in here that I'm surprised you've made.

[ODDJOB UNO]

when a wolf/dingo eats YER BABY.............................you will think a whole lot different.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by gtc

I don't much about the effects of growing wolf populations, but there are a lot of assumptions in here that I'm surprised you've made.

No assumptions - as a dedicated hunter and outdoorsman, I've watched this little saga unfold from its very beginning. It has been a travesty of special interest groups using the courts to over rule sound management practices, and to over rule local authority/autonomy.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

I know a few Wyoming landowners who'll be very happy to hear this.

[ODDJOB UNO]

catron county new messiko is having a PARADE, along with all of central eastern az. counties.

[RWebb]

of course you you have assumptions and biases, Jeff - just like everyone else

[ODDJOB UNO]

rwebbster................maybe we should gather up all the lil wolfies, and drop them in YOUR NECK OF THE WOODS and lets see how YOU DEAL WITH THEM!



of course your a rancher raising lil dawgies(moo cows) and sheep, and its yer ONLY SOURCE OF INCOME!



better yet yer a hunter and you go to a unit that they have been dropped in and FIND NO GAME!


and since we are dropping all the lil wolfies on yer door step................i am sure YOU will want yer children playing outside.


thats reality.

[RWebb]

Btdt

[ODDJOB UNO]

bean there dunned dat? thats amazing.


we have had wolfies within a rocks throwing distance from us outside alpine az.



and didnt see (1) damn deer for 10 days.




and the elk we saw were "circling the wagons" because of mr wolfie. ie. the entire herd was bunched up so tight they were nutz to buttz.