Global Ecomonomics

[john70t]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

(In 1992, CEOs were paid 82 times the average of blue-collar workers; in 2004, they were paid more than 400 times those salaries.)

Yup. And not to change the subject but docs get paid 5X their client's salary on average while in Europe/etc it is 3X.

If the fundamentals of health care, taxes, bureacracy, and transportation are not addressed, there will be further widening of the social gap with new problems.
Then we will be a third world nation.
Fix those, and workers can afford to live on lower salaries, and this country will be fertile for investment again.

[island911]

Originally Posted by john70t

Yup. And not to change the subject but docs get paid 5X their client's salary on average while in Europe/etc it is 3X.

If the fundamentals of health care, ....

what's the doc's annual salary while going thru 8 years of expensive school? ...how about the crazy-hours residency? ...and how much of that 5x salary do they get to use, after they pay their monthly malpractice insurance, and student loan payments? ....compared to the Euro docs?

[Superman]

Originally Posted by jluetjen

The gap between rich and poor is always far greater in non-capitalist, non-developed nations. When you go to developing countries you'll find a tiny group of filthy rich, and huge numbers of dirt poor. .

This is true.

Originally Posted by jluetjen

The US has a HUGE middle-class, and very few dirt-poor..

This is not.

Island, the reason I tend to single you out is that you are way out front in terms of sarcasm, personal attacks and just plain nasty, arrogant-sounding posts. This is the opinion of more people than me. And it is especially disappointing because you are such a nice, reasonable, rational person in face-to-face. Jekyll and Hyde. Textbook Passive/Aggressive. Sure, others engage in vitriol. None more than you.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Execs.........which increases profits..........

Sadly, that is the Exec's job. To maximize the value of a share of common stock. Pure and simple. Indeed, he has this as a LEGAL responsibility to the stockholders. It is in fact unlawful for him to make a decision based on considerations other than maximizing the value of a share of common stock. Corporations are truly, in both the practical and legals senses, amoral. When I am crowned Emperor, I will immediately remove corporations from the public policy -making process where I believe they have no business, and I will consider eliminating their legal ability to exist as entities apart from their owners.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Superman

Sadly, that is the Exec's job. To maximize the value of a share of common stock. Pure and simple. Indeed, he has this as a LEGAL responsibility to the stockholders. It is in fact unlawful for him to make a decision based on considerations other than maximizing the value of a share of common stock. Corporations are truly, in both the practical and legals senses, amoral. When I am crowned Emperor, I will immediately remove corporations from the public policy -making process where I believe they have no business, and I will consider eliminating their legal ability to exist as entities apart from their owners.

Not exactly. His sole responsibility is not to increase the immediate value of the stock, though that seems to be what a lot of them think. The stock market, which is where the value of the stock is determined, is volatile and irrational. It would be insanity to manage a company by chasing the value of the stock. Executives have a responsibility to manage in the best interest of maintaining the company's fundamental value, and you have to wonder if giving themselves $14 million in compensation is really in the best interest of the company.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by john70t

Yup. And not to change the subject but docs get paid 5X their client's salary on average while in Europe/etc it is 3X.

If the fundamentals of health care, taxes, bureacracy, and transportation are not addressed, there will be further widening of the social gap with new problems.
Then we will be a third world nation.
Fix those, and workers can afford to live on lower salaries, and this country will be fertile for investment again.

I agree. Although after studying 6 years to become an MS engineer, I am happy to pay anyone who can hang on another 2+ years, plus internships and residencies 5x what I make. They deserve it.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Not exactly. His sole responsibility is not to increase the immediate value of the stock, though that seems to be what a lot of them think. The stock market, which is where the value of the stock is determined, is volatile and irrational. It would be insanity to manage a company by chasing the value of the stock. Executives have a responsibility to manage in the best interest of maintaining the company's fundamental value, and you have to wonder if giving themselves $14 million in compensation is really in the best interest of the company.

Not trying to be argumentative here but yes, the CEO's responsibility has a short time horizon.....because investors have short time horizons. His job is to maximize common stock value.....NOW. No, he cannot manipulate the vagaries of the stock market, but he can and must tempt that market to value his stock highly, by making moves that impress that market.

As far as time horizons go......If CEO's were in the business of safeguarding the future of the company then sure, values would be important. But to investors, the future of the company is of no consequence. Investors are diversified, and expect some companies to fail. Others will succeed, and the successes will far outweigh the failures. A diversified portfolio does best when all CEO's try their hardest to maximize stock value immediately. That is indeed the rub between investors' interests and management's interests. Management tends to play it safer than investors prefer, since management's future depends on not running the ship aground. Investors don't care about that, they want all ships to sail at full speed, cutting corners close. Investors don't care about profits seven years from now.....or even two years.

I'd agree this is a systemic problem. Bankruptcies mess with workers' lives. The market does not care. The market prefers it this way.

[jluetjen]

Originally Posted by Superman

I'd agree this is a systemic problem. Bankruptcies mess with workers' lives. The market does not care.

I'm not sure that I'd consider this a systemic problem -- that's life. Unless you consider life a systemic problem, you just have to learn to deal with it.



Stuff happens. When it does you have pick yourself up and start to move yourself forward again. It's not easy, but that is what living life is.

[Superman]

That assertion, John......is about as true as any I have ever heard. Life sometime offers us belt-high fastballs over the plate, and sometimes it comes right at your head. You dust yourself off, see what you have left, and go from there.