Valvoline NexGen recycled oil

[EarlyPorsche]

There are about a million better uses for recycled oil than to be used as another lubricant. I am sure you could run Valvoline NexGen at the manufacturers specified interval and have the engine last forever, but the thought of using used engine oil for lubrication again seems silly. That oil could be used in so many other ways that do not require lubrication that it just isn't solving anything by being in engine oil.

[URY914]

The "greenies" will love it.

[island911]

It's great for those already using recycled toilet paper.

. .. which would also be Prius owners who feel the sin of having an internal combustion engine.

[EarlyPorsche]

But its really not "green." There's no need to recycled oil in a lubricating function. Virgin oil could be used as a lubricating oil while the used stuff is refined into a fuel oil or any other of the many potential uses. Seems like a really shortsighted concept.

[LakeCleElum]

Used motor oil goes in a squirt bottle and gets my wood stove off to a great start......Don't tell the Greenies............

[Schumi]

I'd love to hear what Lubemaster has to say about this.

[doug_porsche]

according to Bobistheoilguy.com, its not bad. Really does help the environment.

As they said in "The Princess Bride" the old oil was just "Mostly Dead". Little re-refining, sorry petrochemical engineers, and it really is good as new.

[DanielDudley]

It is a lot more pure than crude, and easier to re refine.

[M.D. Holloway]

Shumi! Thanks for the invite.

Actually, recycled engine oil isn't as bad as one would think. It uses all sorts of oil - ATF, Tranny oil, gear oil prtty much anything that is put into the waste oil drum.

That waste oil is "spent" which means some of the additives have been depleted while contamination in the form of dissolved metals, water, fuel and dirt, soot, and sludge are present. The refining process is nothing more than a glorified still. The oil is boiled up normally with crude and fractioned off. It actually still has some of the additives present but if the process is done proper than the nasty stuff removed. The viscosity index, sulfur and contamination levels have to hit spec for the stuff to be used as a base oil.

Consider this, waste oil for the most part is added to the crude stream. Compared to the zillions of gallons of crude, the waste oil add doesn't make up much at all.

Think "the solution to polution is dilution!"

The Feds like you to use at least 25% re-refined oil to claim it is recycled oil. We actually make some engine oils using re-refined base stocks for the Feds and Military. You would be hard pressed to be able to tell the difference (plus in many instances the Gov requires certain branch to use only re-refined oil).

[billybek]

There was an old oil refinery in Calgary called Hub Oil.
They had a recycled oil called ironically "Lubey Lube".
When I was in high school and college, I was pumping gas to make enough cash while in school and I remember pouring this stuff into old beaters. You never knew what colour it would be until you started pouring it out of the can. Not a new idea, but new for one of the big players, I guess.
The refinery exploded, some people died. Big fire and toxic crap in the air and soil.

[Por_sha911]

Form follows marketing.

[nota]

I have seen a big yacht with a elaborate system to refine the oil on board
they reused the same oil but added additives as needed
why I guess becaused they could or for extended post Apocalypse cruising ??

[sammyg2]

IT'S A MARKETING SCHEME.

There are two different processes to recycle motor oil and re-use it as motor oil: one is to actually re-use the oil, where it is filtered and cleaned and re-used. Bad idea, it sux.
the other is re-refined oil and is every bit as good as any other oil available, providing they use the same quality of additives.

There is a plant in So Cal that has been doing this for years, as much as 10,000 gallons a year

It is more expensive to re-refine oil than to refine virgin oil in large quantities.

A tiny batch type process has to sit idle for a while, until they have gone out and collected enough oil to run a batch. then they fire up the heaters and stripping columns and fractionators and they boil the oil and seperate it by distillation and only keep the fraction that fits into the desired range. That makes perfectly clean and quality oil.
They might get a 50% conversion after they strip out all the nasties.

then they have to add new viscocity index modifiers they took out earlier.
Then they have to add the other additives to get the lubricating and detergent performance they are looking for.
Then the finished product is sold to K-mart or pep-boys under a generic label.
The only reason they can afford to do that is the are getting the oil basically for free and that offsets most of the collection costs, and because the gubmint pays them to do it.

But it reality it can't be done economically on a large scale, certainly not enough to make a difference unless some greenie-fools are willing to pay 5 times as much for this stuff as they would for regular oil.
it just costs too much to collect it on a large scale when compared to a pipeline or rail car delivery.
but hey, people pay big bucks for royal purple or lucas oil products so barnum was right.

I'd be interested in seeing what percentage of that "green" valvoline oil is actually recycled. I bet it aint over 50%. Otherwise it'd just cost too much in big runs.

If anyone out there really wants to do something good for the environment,
STOP CHANGING YOUR OIL SO FREQUENTLY!
STOP CHANGING YOUR OIL FILTER AT EVERY OIL CHANGE!

The people who make oil are the ones that came up with that 3000 miles crap. It's a scam, especially on modern clean running cars.

Take it to 7500 miles and change your filter every other time and you'll do more for the environment that using this green recycled oil.

[EarlyPorsche]

Even though I know much less about oils than the rest of you I still wouldn't buy any sort of lubricating oil that is recycled. It just makes no sense to me.

[Reg]

OIL RECOVERY DIVISION
DIESEL ENGINE OIL 15W40
Features: API Service CE/CD-II/CD/CC for diesel engines. API Service SG/SF for gasoline engines. Allison C-3 and CAT TO-2 for power shift transmissions. Superior ring zone deposit control. Controls bearing corrosion. Reduced valve train wear. Reduced sludge and varnish formation. Protects against rust and corrosion. Good oxidation control to minimize oil thickening. Excellent high temperature stability and performance. Benefits: Low temperature starting (multigrades). Extended engine life. Minimize maintenance costs. Ideal for simplified lubrication of mixed fleets. Good consumption control.

I use this on my MF35 Perkins Diesel. Seems to do the trick just fine so far.

[TimT]

Even though I know much less about oils than the rest of you I still wouldn't buy any sort of lubricating oil that is recycled. It just makes no sense to me.

Why not? Two long time posters/industry insiders have explained the whys and hows of recycled oil...and have said it is good...

My read on the Lubemiesters and Sammyg2s posts are that re-refined (is re-refined some sort of anti double negative?) waste oil is as good as first round of refined oil...

It may not be economically sound to be in the business of re-refining petroleum products....

[nota]

any one else remember the cheap gas stations with reclaimed oil
that came in glass bottles for 10 cents
as teens we kep $25 cars running a little long on that stuff

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by TimT

It may not be economically sound to be in the business of re-refining petroleum products....

It depends on how much tax money the gubmint gives you to do it!

[sammyg2]

Just to clarify: refining the oil means to strip out all the stuff that isn't pure oil molecules of a specific type and size.

They take the old oil and filter it first to get rid of entrained solids.
They add water and amines to strip out the sulfur.
Then it's heated and all moisture is flashed off.

Then they heat the crap out of it, prolly close to 500 degrees or more and pump it into a very tall vessel with different trays in it at different levels.
As the liquid oil goes into the tower somewhere in the middle the pressure drops and the ligher molecules go through a phase change and vaporize, basically boil off. As that happens they rise to the top of the tower and are collected and drawn off.
The really heavy stuff falls to the bottom and it's pumped out. Somewhere near the bottom but not all the way down is a tray where they make the ideal cut.
In other words that's where the oil they want barely goes back to a liquid state.
The internals and temperature/pressure controls are much more complicated than that but it's distillation and if done correctly, they can maximize the good molecules and minimize the bad molecules.

Refining used motor oil if done correctly can make very pure oil with little or no bad stuff. In organic chemistry there is ALWAYS a mixture. You just maximize the good and minimize the bad.

Look at it this way, would you use crude oil to lubricate your motor? Of course not. It wouldn't make it to the end of the driveway.
But we can still get good motor oil out of crude through distillation.

But if they start with stuff that's already motor oil it's actually simpler to seperate all the different ranges of molecules because you're starting with something that's already near pure. It's just too costly to make sense, even if uncle Sam makes us all pay for it.

The real question is this: what do they do with all the toxic waste? The sulfur can be purified and reclaimed, but there are heavy metals and other bad things in used motor oil.
Refining it makes that bad stuff that's left over more concentrated. Maybe they can incinerate it but that's be almost impossible in Kalifornia.
Most likely they have to pay to send it to a toxic waste dump to the tune of $800 per bbl.

[EarlyPorsche]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Just to clarify: refining the oil means to strip out all the stuff that isn't pure oil molecules of a specific type and size.

They take the old oil and filter it first to get rid of entrained solids.
They add water and amines to strip out the sulfur.
Then it's heated and all moisture is flashed off.

Then they heat the crap out of it, prolly close to 500 degrees or more and pump it into a very tall vessel with different trays in it at different levels.
As the liquid oil goes into the tower somewhere in the middle the pressure drops and the ligher molecules go through a phase change and vaporize, basically boil off. As that happens they rise to the top of the tower and are collected and drawn off.
The really heavy stuff falls to the bottom and it's pumped out. Somewhere near the bottom but not all the way down is a tray where they make the ideal cut.
In other words that's where the oil they want barely goes back to a liquid state.
The internals and temperature/pressure controls are much more complicated than that but it's distillation and if done correctly, they can maximize the good molecules and minimize the bad molecules.

Refining used motor oil if done correctly can make very pure oil with little or no bad stuff. In organic chemistry there is ALWAYS a mixture. You just maximize the good and minimize the bad.

Look at it this way, would you use crude oil to lubricate your motor? Of course not. It wouldn't make it to the end of the driveway.
But we can still get good motor oil out of crude through distillation.

But if they start with stuff that's already motor oil it's actually simpler to seperate all the different ranges of molecules because you're starting with something that's already near pure. It's just too costly to make sense, even if uncle Sam makes us all pay for it.

The real question is this: what do they do with all the toxic waste? The sulfur can be purified and reclaimed, but there are heavy metals and other bad things in used motor oil.
Refining it makes that bad stuff that's left over more concentrated. Maybe they can incinerate it but that's be almost impossible in Kalifornia.
Most likely they have to pay to send it to a toxic waste dump to the tune of $800 per bbl.

Sammy,

You actually make me think its not such a bad thing for my engine...but the problem doesn't stop with my engine...the problem I see is the same as you've identified but with a different approach. You say "where do they dispose of the leftover stuff" and I say "theres better things to do with the used engine oil without having to be left with that stuff." I defer to your knowledge whether or not the used engine oil would be better off being filtered and centrifuged to the point where it is particle and water-free enough to be blended into diesel fuel? That is one area where I think used engine oil would be better used than to lubricate moving parts.