L A drivers, tell me why?
 

I am visiting in Cal. and just drove down to L A from Cambria. Beautiful day, lots of nice country to drive thru. A bit of traffic in the Santa Barbara area. Did a swoop thru Ojai valley. Most of the four plus hour drive was on 4 lane divided highways, general speed was 65 to 70 mph some down hill or passing at 75. Generally light to medium traffic, no congestion till the I 5 just north of L A. Then it got quite crowded on the now 8 lane highway, four lanes either side of the divider. Well the more crowded it got the more aggressive the driving became. The speeds went up to 75 to 80 plus, drivers did frequent multi lane changes looking for some clear space to pass in cutting thru very small gaps, etc. total contrast to the driving the rest of the way. much less space between cars, not exactly tailgating but little space for reaction at that speed. Clearly a different mind set, which seemed in stark contrast to what the conditions called for. And quite different to the rest of the trip.
Whats up with that? Is it a L A thing? My hands got sweaty.

Cheers Richard

Not an LA thing. It's a "rat in the box" thing.

Remember the experiment from first year psych class? Put two rats in a box and they retreat to opposite corners. Put four rats in a box and they each take one corner. Put FIVE rats in the box? It's on!

LA = too many rats in the box.

Actually it is an LA thing and your lucky you didn't get the LA middle finger hi sign.

Or worse.
:eek:


Hate LA driving, haven't been brave enough to take the boxster there yet. Have driven from Santa Barbara to Napa, Sonoma and back through Monterey and was impressed with how polite, calm and controlled the drivers there were even when the freeway was crowded


Will drive from Santa Barbara to Cambria in heartbeat.

That's how we roll. Oh, and here's a tip. Under NO circumstances are you to use your turn signal. Happy motoring! :)

I don't live in LA but on a recent trip to Italy (where they drive fast) the left lane is used for passing only and you had better "get on with it" if you're in that lane. The drivers, oddly enough, seemed to respect and obey this rule even in heavy traffic. In my experience, this seemed to reduce the flighty lane changes and right lane passing you see on congested North American hiways. Cheers

(Yep) Try driving in Rome.

Anyway, it's just everyone trying to move fwd best they can. ...which is better than around here where people get pissy if anyone invades their ginormous 'air cushion' of space, as they ride down the left lane exactly one mph below the 'limit.'

I-5 just north of LA, that would probably be where the 14 and the I-5 part. They put in a carpool lane that ends just before the 14, so you have lots of Prius crossing about 6 lanes from the I-5 carpool lane to get to the 14. The traffic right there went to crap the day they opened that car pool lane.

Yeah, I really enjoy how motoring becomes a system of polite and anticipated moves (for the most part) the further away from the metropolis I get. You ought to hear what the OTR truckers say about greater LA traffic. Some won't even come close.

What I don't understand is the traffic you met. This could not have been early this Sunday morning. Sunday a.m. is the only time we get to move about fairly easily.

I don't think drivers in LA are much different than in other congested big cities, and probably half the drivers in LA came from those other congested big cities.

One Man's option
 

Richard:
I live in the Santa Rita valley/Mesa Oaks>above Lompoc. I drive about 70,000 miles a every year. I work in the San Fernando Valley at least (3) days a week. The issue started back in the '60 when the Department of Road did spent the (then low dollars) money to expand the road into the future>not just the next two -three years. It took them (6) years to fix the Santa Barbara (I lived in SB) to "upgrade" the freeway. And again now the 405 is being "upgraded" for the third time in 15 years. Until someone builds a upper and lower double decker freeway the problem will go on. S. Calif can live and grow with cars, and business have been hurt by high gas prices (heavy state additional taxes); which has "helped" the traffic to be honest. But California is like New York or any other big city, people are on the move 24 hours a day/night. Speeds in S. Calif have gone up and more people are driving; I personally don't think the "lanes" have helped at all. Too few use them and the rest of us just wait. A tuff economy force many to work hander, drive>faster, and push the limit of car control and safety. But that live in LA, no in Santa Ynez which is a small little (wine region) town. You have a move "Sideways" that changed the area from a sleepy little area to tour bus city with more and more DUI check points. And for the local business it has helped, but for "the locals" the additional traffic is not a plus! Anyway, come back again and join one of the local car or motorcycle regions on a fun drive outside Los Angeles!!!:D
art
agrimmitt@pelican.

I think that several divergent but related factors come into play on that part of your drive:

1) Traffic just naturally gets more crowded, more cars/lanes/exits/etc., when you get near a big city.

2) Since there are a lot more vehicles and drivers, the chances of seeing some real jerkovs on the road increases diametrically.

3) The concentration of jerkovs/maniacs who just ran out of meth is greater in the outlying areas of a large city, (such as Santa Clarita, where you were), hence the lower quality of the driving gene pool. That's not to say that they do not exist in the middle of nowhere as well, just in lower concentrations.

That said, have you ever driven on Lake Shore Drive or whatever that "loop" highway is around Chicago? How about the Atlanta loop? Not defending CA. a-holes but it's a universal phenomena in my experience.

Several years ago I was on I-5, trying to get from Oceanside to Pomona and it took more than 3 1/2 hours. Traffic was crazy and the drivers were unbelievable. I DO NOT miss that traffic!!

Thanks for the comments. Admittedly driving on Kauai doesn't gear me up for city driving, but I have and do drive all over the world. 2K mls in england and 2k mls on the Eu Continent last summer. Drove around the island of Bali, all over New Zealand, some in Australia, Riding scooters in Thailand, etc. in years past
But what impresses me here in L A area is the success of drivers here to carry such high speeds and making such aggressive moves in very close proximity with no more problems than there are. Lots of practice I guess.

I do have to consciously sloow down once back in islands, after visits to LA where my in laws live.

Each time I get to drive around Cal. it just blows my mind , the diversity of country side.
Did the drive up highway 395 in eastern Cal. a few years ago, thru Big pine to the back side of Yosemite, wow really beautiful out there. The east side of the coastal range north of Paso Robles. fantastic!

The recurring bummer is that my SC is at home and I am driving a rental or my father in laws car.

I would love to get together with other enthusiasts some time. I went by TRE a couple years ago on new years day, but didn't manage to wrangle a ride. impressed with the cars tho.

Milt, was coming into L A sat pm. so it may have been a busy time. But the contrast Ive pointed out seem to be the norm. Maybe a little of the rats in a box, just skilled rats.


Cheers

Pomona???? What the fk were going to do there, buy drugs or get a BJ from a Hooker on Mission?

Is this yours? I took it at the golf course.

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I only ever take a motorcycle to LA. I can't imagine being in a cage there. I've done it twice in the last few years, but I didn't have to be anywhere. I'm going for business again in two weeks and taking the bike.

Hey Dean, I think I've caught a glimpse of that nice looking targa, but mine is a metallic black coupe and I hang mostly on the N. shore. I'm using a borrowed computer so can't post pics.
Did you have a fun visit?

Cheers Richard

I meant "Pasadena", not "Pomona". I was supposed to meet the guys (Jamie and Adam) from MythBusters...

i use to live across the street from cbs studios now any freeway with in a 20mile radius is stuck, now i live in the ie what traffic

as a la driver in downtown nyc, nyc sucks its a battlefield with people cross the street i almost ran someone over, i live and breathe la traffic for 20yrs dont drive in nyc its just chaos you have to deal with drivers and people on the streets. unlike here its just the cars on the freeway

Traffic sux and it brings out the worst in people, and there's plenty of both in LA.

I take LA over NYC traffic any day of the week. I don't know NY, but we just go around the traffic.

I played golf there on the North Course on my birthday, I put it in the water twice on the first hole, the two guys I played with, total strangers, thought I would have a melt down, I said, it's my birthday, I'm in Maui and playing golf. I don't care. I think the one guy shot par, I was in shock. I like Hawaii but don't want to live there.

Heavy traffic for me is getting stuck behind a tractor or school bus.:)

You want to drive with some real jerkovs and nincompoops, try the capitol beltway (495) around DC. You will invent cuss words.

We definitely get our share of the 85mph weavers with phone in one hand, Starbucks in the other hand, and swatting at the kids in the back seat with the other hand...

However just as often we get the 60 in a 65 left lane bandits who slow down more for every slight curve or rise in the highway. The 405 Sepulveda pass drives me crazy in this regard, i.e. many people go well below the speed limit even when there's no traffic, and they won't get the hell out of the way.

LA has three things that hurt:

1) Sheer volume
2) Awful lane discipline - please, everybody - move to the right unless you're passing
3) Carpool lanes - people cut across 3 or 4 lanes of traffic from an entrance ramp or to get to an exit ramp. Usually, there seems to be an urgency to get into the carpool lane immediately after entering a freeway and a desire to wait until the last possible break to get out of the carpool lane to get to an exit. Once people are in a carpool lane, you never know whether the person is trying to get somewhere with reasonable haste or whether they're trying to maximize their hybrid's fuel economy and sacrificing any pace in the process. Those two goals are inconsistent, so you end up with traffic jams and people that want to get around the slow pokes.

I have to presume that the level of distractions, the driving skill, etc. are not unique to LA.

I refuse to drive on the 405. That thing is a parking lot.

When I was in New Mexico on location for about three months I really enjoyed the open roads there. Sure enough when I got back to L.A. I had to get used to the roads again here. Sweaty palms and I was thinking man did this place get more crowded or what? Funny what you get 'used to'.

I blame the people who design the car pool lane for that. some are done really well, some are just terrible. The car pool on the 10 going toward downtown is bad, also the 210. Once you exit, you have about 1/4 mile to get into the right to change fwy. with a little slow flow of traffic, many people just will not let you out. You are flying in the carpool, and can't slow down because traffic in the number 1 lane is going 35mph. They ain't letting you in because they just can't slow down or leave you a gap. Well, they just don't want to because they will be 2 second slower in traffic.

I just drove from Hollywood to So Orange County ..50 miles...it took 1 hour 5 minutes. No big deal...today.

You have to time it right (and be a bit lucky sometimes). It's nothing like driving in Mexico City.

Is Richard(OP) still with us?

Behavioral sink is what you're referring to. It's a term invented by ethologist John B. Calhoun to describe a collapse in behavior that can result from overpopulation. The experiment was done with rats, and had very spooky results.



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LA is busy, but I’ll take that all day over NYC.

His last post was 2022. I saw another old regular in a thread the other day and checked, and saw the same, last post was 2022. I can't remember who the other poster was.

Agree....I've driven in both. NYC is terrible.

London has some sort of fee that they are charging in an effort to keep cars out.

I heard lots of old cites around the world are doing that or ticket cars that have odd or even number lic plates on certain days within city limits. I understand that parking is none existence and streets were built very narrow, for walking before cars were invented.

I’ve driven through that north la area a few times and while fast and dense I thought everyone was fairly competent. Maybe it was an unlucky time of day?

Worst I’ve seen were the freeways in the early afternoon around Provo Utah. Seriously angry and inept drivers there. The freeways seem to have plenty of space but about 2% of drivers are trying to go 2x faster than everyone else and using the whole freeway to make progress. Big pickups with big speeds tailgating, locking all wheels and going sideways was a sort of sport combined with a few tiny overloaded cars going 45 and the regular drivers on their cell phones. Once or twice I would think I’m unlucky but it’s every time through I see so many crazy near misses and smoke from the locked wheels. Im just passing through but feels like I’m playing checkers and the fast aggressive drivers are playing 3d chess. Now I know I find a spot with plenty of space behind a long haul truck and ride out those 10 miles or so.

NY at Christmas time... just don't.

The 'don't block the box' signs are pretty funny and sad that you actually have to tell and fine people for it.

And bike messengers.