Wood flooring questions

[wdfifteen]

I read some old threads on this but they didn't exactly answer my questions. I am planning on replacing the carpet in my great room with hardwood. I've talked to 4 contractors, two of whom say pre-finished engineered wood is the way to go, and two of whom swear by solid hardwood sanded and finished in place. The floor is going over 3/4 plywood subfloor over a basement. It's fairly dry, but the humidity does get up over 60% in the summer and drops to 20 in the winter. To hear them talk, the solid wood is nice, but it sounds pretty dicey when it comes to moisture. The width of the room is 35 feet, so the wood wouldn't have to expand and contract much with humidity percentage wise to make a bid difference in overall dimensions. The engineered stuff sounds foolproof, and looks pretty much just like a solid wood floor. "We've never had a problem" sounds pretty lame compared to "you'll never have a problem." Why would anyone consider solid wood? What advantages does it have over engineered wood that I'm not seeing?

[Zeke]

Engineered will do fine in that environment. Go with the price. If sanded in place is within bounds, you can be more creative with design. Otherwise, less mess with manufactured and possibly a better more durable finish.

Last hand laid floor that large I saw installed was on site for a week beforehand and installed (nailed) with a 3/8ths gap slap down the center of the room and held open with stakes. Each day thereafter the installer would stop by and relieve the pressure reinstalling the stakes. After a week of that, they sanded, stained, sealed and finished over a 3 day period. Of course, the gap disappeared as planned.

Too much monkey business.

[Icemaster]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Why would anyone consider solid wood?

'Cause it's durable, repairable, refinishable. No empirical evidence, but I'd bet it will be around a lot longer than engineered.

Where in SW Oh are you? I'll give you the name of the guy who did our addition and refinished the rest of our house if you're nearby.

[Reg]

35 feet wide? That is a helluva wide room. How long is it?
If you have a dry basement I see no problem is using solid wood on the main floor above. A paper underlay may be in order.
I'd also say add a humidfier if you are 20% - are your knuckles not a cracking? Keep the home at 40% all the time the movement will be minimized.

[A930Rocket]

I prefer solid hardwoods. It just looks warmer, better, etc.

Every engineered wood I've seen has a small bevel that seems to trap dirt. Also, any wear like dents, etc, that damage the surface is painfully obvious and difficult to repair, unlike solid wood.

Just my .02

[boba]

I have both in my house. The hardwood is going to be more costly and more of a project but will last and will be good for decades.

The engineered is good but it is not bulletproof. If the surface gets damaged there is not option to re-sand and finish. It is also not impervious to water or other liquids, it will resist damage but if wetness gets into the seams it can swell.

Both have a place and work well so it may come down to your budget and which you like the looks of.

BTW I have hardwood on the main floor and formal areas and engineered in the upstairs game room and kids rooms.

[RWebb]

I just had my engineered wood floor sanded and refinished.

The manf.s will tell you you can do it 2x or 3x. For solid wood you can resand more often, tho who would want to go thru that or would need to, I dunno.

[Hugh R]

One thing to check is solid is usually thicker. Check your final elevation against door clearances, and any items like an under the counter wine refrigerator before you decide. Hardwood can be sanded more depending on how the nails were put in. Buy an extra box or two of whatever you end up with and put it away. Its cheap insurance and wood styles change, make sure its from the same lot run.

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by boba

The engineered is good but it is not bulletproof. If the surface gets damaged there is not option to re-sand and finish. It is also not impervious to water or other liquids, it will resist damage but if wetness gets into the seams it can swell.

Not entirely accurate. There are engineered floors that will take 2-3x sand & refinish but you will pay more than $2.99 sq/ft for them. More like $10+ sq/ft for material. Engineered floors (the good ones) are every bit as 'real' as solid wood floors and their coatings can last a long time. My engineered floors are glued down over concrete slab and look great 7 years after install. I have young kids, a small dog, and a french door that let in lots of water one winter when the rain was hitting the house sideways for like 2 days. No damage to speak of other than some dings and nicks - character in wood speak...LOL.

Key to good wood floor install is floor prep and top quality install (glue or nail). If you want a 'lifetime' floor contact Trekkor for a travertine install. He is good.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Reg

35 feet wide? That is a helluva wide room. How long is it?
If you have a dry basement I see no problem is using solid wood on the main floor above. A paper underlay may be in order.
I'd also say add a humidfier if you are 20% - are your knuckles not a cracking? Keep the home at 40% all the time the movement will be minimized.

The room is 35x40 - 1400 square feet. I keep hearing about how you have to control humidity to keep movement of the floor to a minimum. I'm not sure I'll always be able to control humidity. I've got a humidifier on the furnace and a dehumidifier in the basement now and the humidity can swing from 60% to 20% over the course of a year.

[targa911S]

Not to hi jack, but my house is a Frank Lloyd Wright influenced mid century modern. The main room, a kitchen,dining, great room combo is huge and very open with a 12 ft vaulted ceiling, and hardwood floors. However I am sure it had a tongue and groove ceiling in that area at one time. I would like to replace it at sometime. Could an engineered wood work better here? Sanding a ceiling cannot be easy or fun. How would I go about this? Again sorry to hi jack.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by targa911S

Not to hi jack, but my house is a Frank Lloyd Wright influenced mid century modern. The main room, a kitchen,dining, great room combo is huge and very open with a 12 ft vaulted ceiling, and hardwood floors. However I am sure it had a tongue and groove ceiling in that area at one time. I would like to replace it at sometime. Could an engineered wood work better here? Sanding a ceiling cannot be easy or fun. How would I go about this? Again sorry to hi jack.

Anything is possible. You might need a workforce comparable to a colony on ants.

You could place a T&G wood layer up there, I'm sure. Start a thread, post pics.

[boba]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

Not entirely accurate. There are engineered floors that will take 2-3x sand & refinish but you will pay more than $2.99 sq/ft for them. More like $10+ sq/ft for material.

That is good information, my engineered floors are over 10 years old and have held up very well. I was told at the time of install that they could not be refinished.

So this would be something to verify as it seems that some can be and some cannot be refinished.

My real hardwoods have been in since 1996 when the house was built and they have been subjected to 4 kids, 3 dogs (that go swimming and come in still damp an lay on the floor) and they have held up very well.

Both options can work and it come down to which you like the look of and budget. An additional consideration could be the install process and time.

[gatotom]

targa911S, how about a nice cedar t&g ceiling or a pine t&g?? I have installed both on ceiling and they look great. You prep the wood before you install so no need to sand on the ceiling. No wear and tear on the wood since you are not walking on it.

In my house I have a 30'x40' red oak floor t&g sanded, danish oil with a poly finish. In this house now for 26 yrs and have refinished the wear zones twice but 3/4 of it have the original finish still in tack.

I had the luxury of when I built this house the flooring was on the site for over a month before install. All wall edges have at least 1/4 inch gap which is covered by baseboard. 3 kids, 4 dogs later do gaps in the floor, still tight as if new.

[AirKuhl]

I did 1600 sq ft about 10 years ago with engineered wood floors, Kahrs brand, Ash wood, cherry finish. 2 kids, lots of traffic going inside and out, pets, direct sun, etc. They still look great. Even in the kitchen with constant spills, grease, food, etc.

An engineered wood floor is still a wood floor. Picture a wood floor from the side. About 1/3 the thickness is the tongue or groove in the middle with 1/3 above and below. With my floors each 1/3 is a separate layer with the wood grain going in a different direction. Just like a solid floor, you can refinish almost all the way down to the tongue/groove level.

The only real difference is that the crossing wood grain keep the floor from shifting as much with temp and humidity. Installed correctly there is basically no worry about buckling, squeaks or gaps that are common with solid floors.

[911pcars]

My observation when I shopped around for engineered wood. Some are thicker than others. The product I selected is 9/16" thick. Some are as thin as 3/8".

Sherwood

[Reg]

Another point to mention is if you use rift/quarter sawn the movement is minimized but cost is higher. We have been selling the old school solid strip flooring for 37 years (as well as Pine T&G for flooring or ceilings ). Much of it is only 3/8" thick but has proven to be a 60+ yr floor. This is a site sanded/finished floor - something we are partial towards. If you are a DIY'r you would be surprised how inexpensive this floor is but respect the cost of having it done for you once you add up your hours spent.

[gtilove]

If you have a nice house, engineered flooring can lower the value of the home. Visually there are at lest two main differences: Each piece of engineered wood is the same size, so over a large space there will be a very recognizable pattern that will stick out like a sore thumb, also most engineered and pre-finished floors have a micro bevel around the edge of each piece, this is so that your feet do not catch on the edge if there is any small elevation changes, again your eye will see these grooves around each piece, and over a room that size it will ruin the flow. With proper installation a real 3/4" thick, sanded in place wood floor will make a room that size look amazing. If there was a real concern about the moisture I would not put in wood that is much wider than 4", and I would let it aclimate in the space for a long time before laying it over a proper moisture barrier.

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by gtilove

If you have a nice house, engineered flooring can lower the value of the home. Visually there are at lest two main differences: Each piece of engineered wood is the same size, so over a large space there will be a very recognizable pattern that will stick out like a sore thumb

Again you are talking about super inexpensive engineered product from HD or IKEA. Are you sure you're not talking about laminate? Big difference.

Most 'nice' homes around here are on a slab foundation and go with a top quality engineered product. YMMV.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by gtilove

If you have a nice house, engineered flooring can lower the value of the home. Visually there are at lest two main differences: Each piece of engineered wood is the same size, so over a large space there will be a very recognizable pattern that will stick out like a sore thumb, also most engineered and pre-finished floors have a micro bevel around the edge of each piece, this is so that your feet do not catch on the edge if there is any small elevation changes, again your eye will see these grooves around each piece, and over a room that size it will ruin the flow. With proper installation a real 3/4" thick, sanded in place wood floor will make a room that size look amazing. If there was a real concern about the moisture I would not put in wood that is much wider than 4", and I would let it aclimate in the space for a long time before laying it over a proper moisture barrier.

Thanks. This is something I hadn't considered.
One thing - and this is just applying logic to what little I know (dangerous, I know).
The prefinished engineered wood is just put in place and it's done, right? The joints between the pieces are not filled? If so, it seems water can run right down in it. The joints between the solid wood pieces get filled with the finish don't they? If so, they should be better and keeping water out, yes?