Originally Posted by Superman (Post 6207605)

Ever wonder what things would cost, and what would be available to buy, if workers did not have jobs. Or if they had jobs, but could afford only housing, transporation and food but no luxuries like televisions or cable service?

Think of money flow in our economy as a circle rather than a line. Commercial interests would love to have you continue to think of it as a line, ending as cheap capital. And then they want you to believe this capital creates jobs. Think more carefully about that construct. Want a better economy? Ask any economist about that. They will tell you that an economy's strength is almost purely determined by how much money is in the hands of consumers. Want a better economy? Cheaper capital won't get you there. More money in the hands of consumers will get you there. Family-wage jobs are not the problem. They are the solution.

Originally Posted by cairns (Post 6211264)

Supe your whole attitude is so 1930 it's unbelievable.

Originally Posted by cairns (Post 6211264)

In today's world management works with their employees to ensure that everyone is happy.

Originally Posted by Soukus (Post 6211305)

I'm not suggesting communist pay Jim. But you can't deny the cost of labor has a proportional effect on the cost of goods and services. Could we flip a switch and reduce labor by 1/2 and have things cost 1/2 less? No. We are in a nearly irreversible situation.

Originally Posted by VINMAN (Post 6211518)

If Verizon "wins" this dispute, do you really think they will cut the price of their products and services???

Originally Posted by Superman (Post 6211586)

Interestingly, in my industry, construction, where labor costs would be expected to be fairly high as a proportion of total construction costs........direct labor costs (wages and benefits) are never higher than 25% of the cost of a large construction project. The rule of thumb typically used by design engineers is 20%.

But yeah, labor costs add to total costs. Then again, personal incomes fund purchasing. If you could get America to work for free, the prices of products would fall, presumably by a two-digit percentage but still not a high one, and most of those manufacturers would go out of business because sales of their products would evaporate entirely or, at least, plummet.

Originally Posted by Soukus (Post 6214721)

About 12 months a go I wrapped up a project. Because I was near a "union market" I had to bid with unions shops. I also bidded out to non-union shops. The cost of construction with the union was close to 2X the cost to use the non-union shop. If I had to use the union shop, I would not have been able to complete the project...and the funds would have been moved to some other project. At approximately the same time, there was a larger project going on at the same location. The contract went to a non-union contractor...saving millons! The "union non-value added" cost was not justifiable. Nobody starved and the economy got a nice boost from the millions spent. In some cases, it's not that wages are lower when using non-union labor, but rather there is no union forcing additional (unnecessary) personnel on the job.

Originally Posted by slakjaw (Post 6215428)

There isnt much money in the wireline portion of these companies anymore. I would guess V will win.

Originally Posted by Head416 (Post 6210843)

Thank you for your response.


This surprises me, and quite frankly I don't like it. If I were ever in a position to vote against something like this I would. My logic is, that if I were to open a business it should be up to me to decide who I hire, and whether I want to negotiate with a union or not. You don't like working for me? Go work somewhere else. From what you say apparently that's not legal, but that sounds like too much govt control/involvment for my tastes.



Regarding the above, a guy I know works as an electrician for his dad's company. They have maybe four permanent employees and when they get a big job they call the union up and can get 30 workers. Without knowing them, they can trust that they have a certian degree of competancy through their union training. I can see the benefit here, when it comes to training and knowing they aren't going to screw up and burn my house down.



I tend to think the above, and this is why:

I pay more than that, but they're throwing a fit. When I hear thousands of people are whining and talking about striking because they don't want to pay a few bucks for their own health care, I want to b**** slap them. They're working a job that literally anybody could do, and getting wages and benefits beyond what that job merits. But they feel entitled. I sit next to a guy who worked in a grocery store for ten years and he's always talking about how employers owe the workers all sorts of stuff just because they want it. How dare the owners who fronted the money get rich from their investment? This same guy thinks he's unjustly been passed up for promotions several times, but what he doesn't understand is that the people they promote over him work harder and produce better results. He thinks he should get promoted because he's been here longer than them. That's the union mentallity, and it's a hinderance to good business. I'm not saying there's zero use for unions, but I think that describes the vast majority of their influence in this day and age. If you're being chained in a flammable warehouse at your job, maybe you should unionize. Otherwise, just stop whining.

Originally Posted by Normy (Post 6215880)

-I really wonder if you'll be that eloquent when YOU get downsized, or your paycheck gets cut in half. My father was an executive for an electrical utility; I currently make as much as he ever did and yet....he could be fired by his boss if the boss didn't like the tie he wore to work each day. I'm a union member; Let them try that with me, and I'll laugh all the way to the bank.

Who's better off?

Remember folks....most of you ARE NOT the boss. Unions have bad aspects....but they will ENSURE YOUR LIVELIHOOD. I'd like all of you to please go and check on your kids....

N!

Originally Posted by ben parrish (Post 6214758)

And that is why many are against unions; the redundant, extra personnel designated for each little operation.
"Hey, mister electrician, can you help he move this saw bench?" "Nope, not my job; have to call the carpenter apprentice."
"Hey mister carpenter apprentice, can you back that fork up? Nope, not my job; have to call the equipment operator."
"Hey, mister equipment operator, can you help me move this drainage pipe? Nope, not my job, have to call the plumber." :confused: