Any opinions on a Precision 18
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1314811057.jpg

Not bad, but it all depends. If you get a boat like this, how/where do you envision using it? Use it in the open ocean vs. protected bay vs. inland waters? Is this a stepping stone to a larger boat for more coastal cruising, or is this the coastal cruiser you had in mind? How many people will you sail with? Will they be experienced? Are they more interested in sipping martinis while you steer & trim sails? Are you going to sleep aboard? I'm sure more questions will pop into my head after a while. :)

edit: I just ran some numbers based on the tech specs and this boat would be considered a light displacement racer (albeit probably not a fast one :p) and probably tippy. Not the best choice for an inexperienced skipper in open water. Definitely OK for protected bay / inland waters sailing.

At the moment my plans are such,
I will be sailing alone (learning) most of the time with occasional guests. max of three with no sailing experience and probably only a little desire to learn. No sleep overs intended when guests on board, day sailing only.
Sailing will be in protected waters with the intentions of going off shore as ability increases.
Ultimate goal will be to end up in the PNW (Puget Sound) but will either trailer it up or sell it here and buy another when I get there.

A lot of truth in the above.... you can learn the basics of boat and sail handling in one day on the water with a knowledgable sailor on board with you. It's not rocket science (until you get into racing:D)
The best place to learn the basics of navigation and rules of the road (very important if you sail in commercial traffic) is probably through your local Power Squadron. This is just as important (if not more) than the actual boat handling.

Based on your answers, I'm more convinced than ever that my earlier recommendations (Capri 14.2 or Vanguard Nomad, or similar dinghies) are on target. You'll need to learn about wind and weather, sail trim, currents, basic navigation, anchoring, safety, maintenance, and handling the unexpected. Do that for a while, sell the small boat, and move up to a keel boat. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

Jack, I've never heard of anyone learning this in one day. That's like drinking from a fire hose.

And there's no substitute for developing a reasonable level of experience.

You aren't going to want to go very far off shore in any of the smallish learning boats you are likely to acquire. Off shore is a whole 'nother world from sailing inshore in a bay or other protected area.

Keel boats, cats and dagger boards all sail differently and while there is some overlap in the skill sets I'd stick to a small keel boat w/ a fractional rig. If you are athletic and don't mind going swimming a lot a dagger board boat or cat can be a ball but they are not for everyone

As for trailering a 24' keel boat is very trailer-able w/ a 1/2 ton truck or capable SUV like a 4 Runner but is really too much boat for a beginner, especially when you add the fact that you will need crew in addition to everything else.

Forget the cabins and all that other stuff you will likely never use it other than for storage, while you can sleep in a 22 it is very spartan and few do so regularly.

I'd look for a 17-20' keel boat, these are small enough to sail alone or w/ 1 or 2 crew, a small cuddy cabin for storing stuff, like extra clothes for when the weather changes as it often does. These boats will be very wet in even moderate conditions so the extra clothes are really going to be appreciated.

I'd also look for a used but well maintained boat as a cost effective way to get into the sport.

Never forget the old saying,
'A boat owners happiest 2 days are the day he buys his boat and the day he sells it'

The idea of taking some on-water lessons is a very good one, you will at least have a better appreciation for what it's all about, many have fantasies about sailing that are far from the reality

Boy Howdy! Right after I bought it, I was pretty clueless about our little Mutineer 15. Light weight, 150 sq. feet of sail. The real breakthrough was when we invited a banking co-worker of Cindy's and her hubby Brian along. Brian an Aussie from Brisbane who cut his teeth on a jib sheet. He taught me how to make that little boat dance, how to read the catspaws on a mountain lake, how to FEEL the wind with your ears, how to...well, the list was long.

I sure miss sailing, but when it became too much for Cindy (MS), we gave the boat to our daughter...she then sold it after never using it. Still a minor sore point with me.

How much do I miss sailing? One HELL of a lot more than I miss having a P-car.
We recently spent some time near the place we used to sail. I teared up watching a young couple sailing what looked like an O'Day dinghy...

Acording to a lot of you guys.... I should not ever be able to sail !
I built my boat, and never took a lesson on how to sail !
Still here..LOL
The trouble with short fat boats is they WILL not sail...very well compared to a 28 what ever.
Any 28- 30 footer you can single hand.
AND, YOU need to be able to do that !
And you need to teach who ever is with you to throw a life vest over board after you should you fall in. LOL
And how to come about to get ya....!
When by myself I have a line usually hanging 50 foot off the back of the boat tied to the main sheet release....in case I go in I do have a prayer of getting back in
the boat

Hey Afterburn, good on you, lets see some pics of your boat. We are all DIYers to some extent. And some do thrive in the throw them in at the deep end, school of hard knocks.
I bet you have learned some easy ways to make it happen, that you could pass on. that is part of what one can pick up in a class, as well as right of way, aid to navigation, boating safety, etc. Plus keep in mind that we are talking about learning in crowded so Ca waters.
the very thought shivers me timbers. the weather not so much, but the busy traffic, whooo watch out.
Kevin,
That precision 18 is a good looking boat, seems like it should sail nicely. All boats are compromises, this one gives up some cockpit space for a largish cabin for a boat of this size. Does this trade off make good sense to your use. But the proof is in the details, how well it is built, and layed out, quality of gear and hardware, etc. I've never seen one of these in person.
You should try to get out on any boat that you are considering. check out how easily it is to set up and rig, and launch.
Stay at it, you are headed for some fun.

Cheers Richard

Jim,

That is how I learned to sail. I bought our first boat, (a Catalina 27) with zero sailing experience. I knew we wanted a boat we could comfortably? spend 2-3 days on. I found the boat that fit the bill and bought it with the condition that the owner would spend a day on the water teaching me all he could.

We spent about 10 hours on the water tacking, gybing, reaching, running with me working the sails and then at the helm. We covered the basics of reading tell-tales, weather helm, sail trim, hoisting the sails and dousing them. When we finished I had every confidence I could handle the boat on the large lake we were on. He offered to go out the next weekend but I declined. The next weekend my wife and I hit the water and have never looked back. And yes, I have my fair share of self-confidence. As someone pointed out however, the ocean and offshore is a whole different game.

I knew the boat had be relatively stiff (no centerboard, etc) some creature comforts and easily handled by 2 people. The Cataline 27 we ended up with was inboard diesel, pressurized h20, water heater, marine head with shower, small galley and was a perfect weekender. Whe wife is really not into roughing it...

We currently have a Catalina 34 docked in Corpus Christi. We have sailed offshore from Galveston to Port Isabel and all points between and done the Harvest Moon Regatta from Galveston to Port Aransas.

I agree with you statement about experience level but a lot of it is just using your head. Watch the weather, don't go out in 30 knot winds - know your limitations.
I believe the only real way to develop the experience is to do it. I have made every mistake you can make: backwinding jibs, flying gybs, unintentional gybs, rounding up, in irons, lost anchcors, etc etc... the same ones anyone who has ever sailed has made...;)
and yes, I know the da#@# fender is hanging off... we were coming into an anchorage when the pic was taken.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1314844380.jpg

I did , I believe it to be on the 1st page of this thread (Kestrel)
Mine is the cruising cabin style the true blue racers use a lower cabin

Make sure you do some study on the thunder Bird designed by Ben Seaborn.
They pinch up truly well, Ben had the Puget Sound in mind when he designed it and that is a long story in itself
They out sail most boat so well they are severely handicapped in the races !

Thunderbirds are pretty cool. A great boat for the DiY back yard boat builder. Their PHRF rating isn't that bad, is it? I thought they're about the same as a Catalina 27 and much higher than a J/24.

The 10-hour introduction instruction that Jack talked about is great...I wish I had someone's undivided attention for 10 hours to learn about sailing basics. Learning to sail on a lake is easier, and harder, than along the coast. No significant currents, tides to deal with, potentially a lot less navigation expertise required, but you do have a lot more wind shifts to contend with due to terrain around the lake. When I first started sailing on a regular basis, on the east coast of FL, the weather would often change drastically during the afternoon when thunderstorms would typically occur. Sailing there provided a wide range of conditions to become familiar with how to handle the boat no matter what Mother Nature threw at you. Also, learning about the tides/currents when you wanted to transit through an inlet, sailing/navigating at night, choosing a proper place to anchor and doing it properly. All important things to learn about.

All this talk about sailing is making it hard for me to think about work. :D

Common since is a BIG factor in living, flying, sailing what ever
To hoist a main sheet and a jib is no big deal...Now its settings can be refined and no school will teach you that and every boat will be different depending on conditions.
The basics will be found in any book.
Knowing what the tide is doing is a good thing...
Being able to throw a GOOD anchor over in short order is a good thing.
dropping the sails in short order and becoming a motor boat can be a good thing..
Most Marinas will not permit you to hoist a sail inside them with dam good reason..
To sail is best pictured as a water melon seed...two forces ..like your thumb pushing the seed dwn on the table..it will squirt somewhere.
The wind of the sail is pushing (pulling) the boat over, the keel is resisting the force from lateral movement..the boat moves ahead..(I stole that illustration from somewhere)
All of this can be learned by yourself if you go out on fair days..and i am a fair weather sailor by choice...The excitement of a knock dwn is not that thrilling to me..but, you need to know what to do in that advent (release the main sheet for one)
Depending on a bilge pump(s) to save you is pretty cocky and for sure arrogant.!! They are for nothing more then stray water removers..most think they are a life saver NOT!

To the OP...check out good old boat magazine if you haven't discovered it already:

Good Old Boat - Welcome to Good Old Boat Magazine

IMO a good place to cruise for info about getting into sailing and sailboats without taking out a 2nd mortgage.

Didn't read the entire thread but if you want to get an idea of how a boat can be, take a class. Also see if you can get to crew on a PHRF race boat to get a feel for high performance sailing.

Ahoy there afterburner, Sorry I didn't link you with your earlier post. Kestrel is a very nice looking boat, nice job building her. and I can second what you say about the performance of the T-bird design.
Very fine sailing boats, and very ready to plane given the right conditions.
And I have to admit to being mostly self taught in getting into sailing myself, with some useful
sailing with more experienced sailors along the way.

How ever I have done sail instruction, both in dingys, and in mid 30' cruising monohulls,
I enjoyed helping to smooth the way, and accelerate the process for others who were learning to manage and enjoy being out on the water under sail. And seeing them progress more quickly and learn to avoid problems without having to go thru them themselves.
There are many ways to go about learning most things. My earlier suggestions were intended to be just that. No judgment about other input.
I so appreciate the help I get here on PP BBS in sorting out problems with my SC. This help supports me in taking on jobs I wouldn't want to muddle thru on my own.

I saw the OPs questions as an opportunity to contribute in an area that I do have some experience with. I am sure he is taking from each of us what he can use to get into having some fun afloat.

Cheers Richard