Question for sailboat owners.
 

The next item on my bucket list is to learn to sail. I eventually want a boat that is good for day trips, comfortable for three of four, trailer-able. I'm thinking something in the mid 20' range.
My question is, should I buy something smaller like a Hobie cat to learn on or should I start with what I intend to finish up with ?

For what you plan to do, ie. day sail with friends, something in the 22-26' range with a swing keel would be your best bet. Relatively easy to trailer and to handle. Definitely don't think you would want to go with a Hobie as a Catamaran is a totally difference animal than a keel type boat and has no creatur comforts at all. You definitely want a boat with at least a decent porta-potti set up if you intend to have females on board as requesting they just hang off the stern generally doesn't go over well :D.

What about just for the learning of the basics. Any advantage to something small cheap and disposable?

For he basics? Get a dinghy in the 15-16' Range...O'Day day sailor, something like that....a centerboard dinghy for easy launching. These are the best craft for really learning to sail. Move up to a ballasted keelboat after you've mastered the centerboard.

Multi hulls are indeed a different animal...tons of fun, but different.

People who begin with a ballasted boat don't undersatnd the basics of sail trip as well as those who began on a centerboard dinghy, and sometimes end up in trouble because of the ballasted boat forgiveness of error.

I would say take a class to learn how to sail and buy the boat that you want to have for the long run.

You could look into a sailing club. They offer a variety of boats, possibly instruction.
The Hobie cat is a very fun type of boat, But quite difficult to learn on. Light weight, lots of windage make for challenging tacks. A small monohull dingy is a good way to start. Tiller in one hand, sheet in the other, and your positioning in the boat critical to trim. Instant and direct feed back.
There in So Cal there should be lots of sailing clubs to choose from. You may find that you don't need to own a boat yourself.

Cheers Richard

Kevin,

All good advice above. The first advice I would give is find an instructor and learn to sail before you buy a boat. Learning to sail is different than cruising around with 3 guests on board.

Once you get the principals of sailing down then you can decide on a boat. The purchase of a boat will depend on several factors. Some of which you already mentioned. You want to day sail with three guests (four total people including yourself).

Some other questions to ask are:

1. where will you be sailing? Ocean, Lake, Bay?
2. how large are my guests? Average size adults or are some larger?
3. the age of your guests?
4. even your guests sex. An 18-20 year old girl isn't going to be to keen on using the "poop deck" with her fathers 45 year old friend 2-1/2 feet away.

Once you answer those questions you can start looking for boats that fit your current needs and ability and that you can grow into as you become more proficient.

If you want to learn, start with a nice 18+ foot sloop. I learned on a Rhodes 19 and loved to sail and race that hull. I moved up to a Seidleman 25 later (still miss that one).

You can learn on just about anything but I'm not sure I would want it to be a Hobie cat. Good advice about taking some classes.

I've taken a few ASA classes, some 'performance instruction' on J boats and learn something every time. My first boat was a Cal25. Cheap, simple and lots of fun. Moved up to an Alberg 30 and while it's much better for a weekend, sometimes I miss the simplicity of the Cal.

A friend took a class through a local community college, pretty cheap and they got on the water for cheap. Also, look out for postings for crew. You'll learn a ton getting a ride on a boat.

And people with big boats are always wanting people to crew for them. Free instruction, a good time, and meet some fun people.

What Paul said. I learned to sail at Mystic Seaport here in Ct. in a 9' dinghy. Basically a bathtub with a sail. If you can sail a small boat all others will come easy.

I meant to say basics of sail trim...better learned in an unballasted centerboard dinghy than in a ballasted "keelboat"...In the dinghy, you'll swim unexpectedly from time to time, but that is a great teaching tool in it's own right.

Good advice Thanks everyone.

Basics..anything will teach the basics..If you have 1/2 a brain you can jump right up to most sloop 30 footers..Just use your head and not try to sail around the horn till you have some experience LOL
a 26 T Bird is the most bang you will ever get for your buck!..and ever one will be pissed at ya for sailing past
them..These are race cruisers and the racers replace all the sails every 2 years so stuff is more then reasonable on the market
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1314497340.jpg

Dude..................learn to sail......take an ASA 101 class, you won't regret it.
I did for my 40th birthday and have never looked back.

Depending on where you intend to sail and your uses, you could always start with a 22 ft and go from there....


IT IS THE MOST EXHILARATING EXPERIENCE ADJACENT A 911......KICK THE ARSE OUT OF IT..

Neil

Why not a cat?

I live on an inland lake in MI so my perspective may not be appropriate but I think anything small, simple and cheap sloop rigged/with a jib would be great to learn on. Kinda like karting as a start to racing real cars.

Taking a boat (or any craft, for that matter) to the limit, right on the edge, isn't something you always have the luxury of doing. I've capsized and had some catastrophic equipment failures in smaller boats and it has taught me things I couldn't have learned otherwise. And when it comes to good technique what better way to learn than in a vessel where you can SEE IMMEDIATELY the effect of trim and balance.

On my lake we have some pretty challenging wind, nothing at all like open water. Gusty, lots of coves making turbulence, hills on one side and miles of wetland on the other. When we've got really good wind all day I wish I had a cat, but usually it doesn't blow hard enough to make a cat fun.

One manning a dagger board sloop in good wind is fun, trying to be quick in high wind is awesome, if you don't get the gunwale wet you're not pushing hard!

Mudman,

Nothing is wrong with a cat loads of fun just not the best choice when learning the sport. It's probably best he learn on a simple mono-hull then maybe move into a cat. As a former cat sailor as you get older all that high performance isn't always welcome. Especially when your body doesn't bend and move like it used to.

I'm guessing from Kevin's original post he is looking to gently cruise along with some friends relaxing sipping a cocktail before he kicks the bucket. vs. being strapped up to a trapeze flying a hull in 8 to 10 knot winds.SmileWavy

get this book first

Amazon.com: Royce's Sailing Illustrated, Vol. 1: Tall Ship Edition (9780911284089): Patrick M. Royce: Books

I would rent or borrow a few different boats while learning before buying

many JR collages to full uni's have sailing programs

an other idea is radio controled model boats to learn on

hobiecats are not a eazy boat to learn on
fun fast and well built just not a first boat

sunfish are everywhere simple cheap to buy and own
and car topable or pickup bed and store eazy
the best little boat to learn on ever
and you can rent one anywhere
or buy used cheap and resell

then an daysailor like an oday
something 14 to 16ft and not a all out racer
again rent or buy used

then a cabin boat or fast cat
and you will have a better idea what you want/need

The plan is to spend a year or two here in SoCal cruising the coastal waters learning and then sailing up the coast to Washington State and making Puget Sound my home waters.
I've been watching Craigslist and ebay and think that something around 25' to 32' sounds about right for size, use, and budget.

I'd stay away from the larger trailerable boats
 

Too much hassle to step the mast, rig it, etc.
Plus, have you ever noticed how the 20+ foot trailer boats resemble a Clorox bottle? They don't take the wind as well as a boat that wasn't designed with trailerability as a constraint.

Sailing is a blast - spend some time, figure out if you want a boat in your driveway (or wherever). See how tolerant you are of set-up/take-down chores relative to sailing time.

Kevin, talk to PatrickB... He's really into it..

Kevin, my wife and I have sailed years together on L Mich and Puget Sound. I suggest you take ASA101 as a start (we did not; should have). Also check into USPS for very good courses on piloting, nav, engine maint. PM me if you'd like. We will make Puget Sound home when we retire.

If it flys, floats or fuchs, rent it first.

Find one you can live with, then decide. When I saw the thread, I was trying to remember if you had ever been down to King Harbor with me. Guess not.

I took 1 1/2 classes at OCSC, a US Sailing school in the San Francisco bay that teaches on J24's. The school is very professional, and the classes are very confidence building. It is typically very windy there, so you get lots of heavy-air experience.

It makes a fun 1 week "working" vacation. When I went, they even let you stay overnight on the clubs larger cruising craft for something like $30 / night.

I could not say enough good things about their program. They really work you. You'll be exhausted at the end of the week!

Kevin,

I would suggest you take the two years learning the sport and get on as many boats as you can in that time frame to see how each boat sails, the amenities, room in the cockpit, easy of rigging, sailing, etc. The only way to know if a boat is going to be good for you is to spend time on it. There are a lot of great boats in the size range you are looking at but a lot of dogs as well so get on as many as you can.

About 6 mos. before you are ready to move to Washington State make up your short list and decide which boats fit your current needs and ability and will still fit five years in the future. Buy the boat take the balance of your time fitting it out to your liking, adding electronics and upgrades, etc. Sail it around So. Cal to learn it's nuances and where everything is and how it works. No two boats are the same or sail the same. So it takes a little bit of time to understand it.

When you are comfortably and ready head up the coast.

Oh and make sure your wife, girlfriend, friend whoever also knows how to sail the boat where the safety gear is where the pumps are the radio how they all work, etc. From an enjoyment stand point you don't want to be the guy working all the time while everybody else is relaxing sipping Martini's that's no fun. From a safety stand point if you become incapacitated or you need to fix something you need someone to take the helm, make a mayday call, etc. The sea is unforgiving and will take you away in the blink of and eye.

Best of luck

I have a hobie 16... fun boat but I wouldn't want to learn on one. When you put it pointy end down, it's a $@#%er to get upright again.

pwd72s is dead-on. Get a simple dinghy, learn on that. Fastest, easiest and least expensive way to learn.

Once you're comfortable, go get a trailerable 20-24' swingkeel boat. I had a Chrysler 22, it was dead simple to raise the mast, and had a LOT of room for a 22. Another nice trailer sailor is a MacGregor 22. Try to find a boat with a roller furling jib. Well worth every penny

Have fun! There have been times that I've been without a car, and hitchhiked to work & university... but I have NEVER been without a sailboat

I've looked at a couple MacGregors and they are exactly what I was thinking would be a good starter boat.

My buddy has one and I think it's a perfect daysailer that you could also do some camping in.

Just don't be lulled in by a super-cheap boat, there are lots out there. If you pay just a little more, you can often end up with good sails, good trailer, good motor for just 2-3k. You'd spend a grand or more on any of those upgrades, so it's not worth going cheap (ask me how I know)

Even if you get a great 22 footer, I still think it's worth getting a cheap dinghy to start out on. That way when you're learning to SAIL, you don't have to worry about the bull###t of launching, docking, tying up etc. And when you screw up, you can just pull it up on the beach without any help (ask me how I know)

Kevin, this (or similar) would be a good starter boat. Low cost of entry, easy to sail, easy to trailer, too.

1994 Catalina Capri 14.2

I wouldn't buy a MacGregor. The hardware on them always looked too cheap/flimsy to me.

Or maybe this. It's a bit sportier, larger, pricier.

Sailboat 17' Vanguard Nomad

My impressions were that the Mac Gregors are on the cheep end production type boats, No sailing time on them, just looking them over. Don't seem to have the lines of a good sailing boat.
The plan to sail up the coast is quite ambitious for a first offshore sail. Up wind, challenging points to round, plenty fog, long areas of rough coast line with few safe harbors. Look into a cruising guide for details.
Not meaning to be a splash of cold water, just real.

Cheers Richard

Paceship
 

See if you can locate a used Paceship. 23' long, swing keel and trailerable. Sails very nice and doesnt cost too much up front and is ez on the wallet to maintain. I've had mine for 10+ years already.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1314641324.jpg

Richard is spot on. Learn in protected waters on a dingy, like the suggestions I tossed out. Then learn to sail local waters (bays) in a small keelboat or swing-keel boat. Coastal cruising will require a reasonable level of experience and probably a 26-35 foot keelboat. I did some coastal cruising in 28' and 38' keelboats. I did lake/bay/close-offshore racing in a J/22.

Buy used as you move up the size ladder so you can sell them at / near break even. Take some of the classes offered by sailing organizations such as the American Sailing Association or US Sailing.

Checkout a book called 'Twenty Small Sailboats to take you Anywhere'. Great book I've read through a few times. Lots of info on what to look for in a safe cruising boat. I'm sure it's a bit conservative for some, but it's that old fashioned, simple advice that'll keep you safe when the weather gets ugly.

Couldn't agree more. There is a reason you see "oversized load" sailing craft on I-5. The sail journey you dream of is pretty hazardous offshore sailing. During the summer, the prevailing winds are northerly, meaning you'll be tacking & beating most of the way. Your rigging will be under heavy strain much of the time.

Friend Stan Mott was a liveaboard yachtie for years. First the Mediterranean, then crossing the Atlantic to the Caribbean. He once admitted that during my dinghy sailing years, going after work & on Sundays, I spent more hours actually sailing than he did on his large ketch. Most years, he spent in a marina, working on art projects, with sails only when he wanted to change locations.

Crossing the Atlantic, basically following the same route Columbus took, is a much easier sail than the length of the Pacific coast, South to North. Ask people who have done both.

(edit) McGregors...more motor boat with sails than the other way around. My old 15' Chrysler Mutineer has literally sailed circles around one of those slow tubs while the McGregor was on a "fast reach".

The first time you feel your centerboard dinghy pop up on a plane, you get hooked! :D!

That looks like a fun boat! The elliptical rudder is a giveaway...designed for speed.

Unless you're set on sailing up the coast, just buy one when you get up here. There are always a ton of little San Juans and the like for sale around here.
example 1
example 2

IMHO, take the ASA sailing classes, not only you will become proficient at handling a boat you will learn the rules of the road.

Its not the sailing that is that hard to master, the stress seems to always be in anchoring in a crowded harbor and getting in and out of the slip.

Keving, you might also want to check out www.californiasailingacademy.com

It might be a good place to go for classes and to get sailing experience. Here's some of the boats they have:

California Sailing Academy Sailing Club

You've got me really thinking about sailing, which beats the hell out of working, especially on a Monday!

I think you all are making this sailing thing WAY too complicated..rais the sails an go...watch out for a lee shore
know red from green
have a tide book
dont sail in a gail...Unless you like that kind a crap
On the puget sound you are never too far from anywhere