How much to get a private pilots license?
 

Lets suppose the wife and I got a notion to go out and get our pilots license.

If we paid for the lessons, and paid to rent for the duration, what would it cost us? We live in Seattle, WA if thats relevant.

Would it make any kind of sense to get into a flying club?

Speak to me gurus.

Just between you and me boys, the idea of my wife piloting a plane scares the schitz outta me.:D

Can you afford to go club racing full time? If so, you could probably afford lessons for one of you.

Figure about $100 per hour for renting the plane, including fuel and $40 an hour for the instructor. If you are diligent and hit the studying hard and go for the test(s) at around 50 hours (being a little conservative, you are looking at around $7,000 for one person.

I'd say that's about right. If you can swing it though, I'd say it's worth it.

Back in the day, I got my license by taking ground school while in college. They even had a pretty nice simulator.
Then I joined a flight club. They had Cessna 150s for lease a $5.00/per hr wet. The instructor cost $7.00/hr.
Back then it only took 40 hrs for a private license. I did it in 28 days. soloed with 6 hrs.
Those were the days

To answer your question $7-8k ea should work.

you need three things to get your pilots license

Time... to devote to study, testing and flying

Money.... that wont run out till you pass your practical test.

Intention.... to finish as soon as possible

The trick is to fly as much as you can,
as many times as you can,
in the shortest period of time.
Make each flying lesson about 1.5 Hr long fly twice a day if you can and 5 times a week,
if possible.

NOTE if you fly once or twice a month then you will have over 100 hours duel given before you will be ready for the flight test,
and this could take a year or more


Get a good instructor and tell him what your flying plans are and what your goals are.

The longer you go between flying lessons the more you will have to relearn,
the more it will cost you.

Get your student pilots flight physical first ,
then get a packet of study material ,
read it then find a ground school to attend.
Pass the ground school and take the written test

Once these things are sorted out then set up the flying schedule and stick to it.
Even if this will be a hobby for you and or your wife,
keep the iron in the fire, you should be able to get the license in about 12 weeks or less
but you gotta study and you gotta fly.
Good luck.

BTW some people simply go buy their own airplane to learn how to fly, and hire an instructor
once this is done then they either keep it or sell it and buy another one thats better suited to the missions you want to fly.

If the area you live in has weather systems moving through it then by all means consider getting the instrument ticket

Along the same lines, how many hours average, to solo? Any tests or other requirements prior to first solo?

Thanks!

It really depends on how your skills develop and how your instructor feels...

As for tests, there is a pre-solo exam, but it's rather easy and usually open book or you go over it with your instructor. The big tests are at the end - though you can take the written at pretty much any point.

Cheapest planes around here are @ $145.00 an hour. ( for a 172. 152s dont exist around here anymore)

When I did mine, I didnt look at the total cost. Who has an extra $8K laying around?
I did it by a budget of lets say $500-600 a month, and just kept doing that until i was finished. I have never added up the total since..

I looked at a couple of places at Renton. They are a bit more expensive, even with the block rate as well. If you really want to know... I pay $85/h for a Piper Warrior... :)

is that 85/h wet? if so, that is a REALLY good deal in todays market...

Yes, wet. :) The number is only good if I put down $1,000 or more at a time though. I think it is normally about $110/h (block).

Mrmerlin's advice is good overall, but I would change one thing: I would NOT enroll in and finish the groundschool BEFORE flight training. Flight and Ground training are both really designed to be conducted concurrently. The concepts in Ground School will make a LOT more sense if the student is also flying.

Also, even though I did EXACTLY as he prescribes - fly twice a day every day - I did this when I was in college and between jobs (back in '85). For the average guy who works for a living, that's nigh impossible. What I suggested to my students back when I was an active flight instructor (a LONG time ago) was to fly at least 3 to 5 times per week. At that pace, the student tends to move forward rapidly.

My credentials to make such comments: twenty six years of flying, twenty two of which are as a professional. Flight Instructor at a major southern Cal airport for more than two years back in the late 80's - 1500 dual given. Airline pilot for twenty years and current Line Check Airman. :D

My Experience
 

I soloed, but never got a PPL. The problem isn't so much the initial cost, it's the cost in time and dollars of making the long term commitment to being a proficient pilot. Flying is nothing to screw around with - you need to be competent and improve your skills constantly.

So, instead of going to the cars 'n coffee or kids soccer games or whatever on a beautiful Saturday morning, you really should be flying around the patch for an hour or two. Miss a few saturdays, maybe have a close call the last time that has you rethinking things? Don't put it off, you MUST do a lot more than the bare minimum in order to keep your skills up.

I have been a scuba diver since I was a teenager. As we started having kids, I did it less and less. Finally, I made a commitment to be a good diver, and keep my skills up. Drives me nuts now to see "vacation divers" screwing with no skills. Anyway, flying and diving have something in common - only a small fraction of the people who learn to do it are still doing it a year later.

I found flying fun sometimes, but not fun enough relative to the cost, risk, and level of commitment required.

My wife and I learned to dive a couple of years ago, and dive every couple of months for three to five days at a time. :) We're hooked (well, at least on warm water diving anyway)!

Skills must be attended to, for sure. Much more importantly, one MUST be aware of one's limitations and fly accordingly.

Budget $10k-$12k and you should be fine in most all cases. A lot depends on how often you can get up in the air which is a function of a lot of variables - availability of student/plane/instructor, level of commitment, weather, etc. I've had some guys bang it out in 1-2 months and others that have taken upwards of a year. It just depends. A lot of the value of a PPL is that it demonstrates tenacity and perseverance.

In addition to frequency/how often you can fly, the quality of those flights is important - how well-prepared you can be for them, how "dialed in" you can be doing them (i.e. not feeling pressured to do this, do that and five minutes after landing having to go run to a meeting or whatever - try to build in enough time around each lesson to allow it to flow at a reasonable, constructive pace that's conductive to learning and enjoyment. Far too many flight schools (more so the "academy" types) cram students into rigid time blocks and there's always a pressure feeling that IMHO makes it far less enjoyable for the kind of money you're investing. For someone who's looking at getting into it for a career, perhaps it doesn't matter so much if it's a little strained, but if you're doing this for enjoyment and enrichment, try to find an instructor/school/routine that keeps it enjoyable, enriching, rewarding and positive.

Best of luck - look around, shop around and definitely talk to other people about who good instructors/schools are - both in terms of knowledge, skill/mechanics and personality. Remember you're investing a lot of time/effort/money in this and you're going to spend a lot of time in close quarters with whomever your teacher is. Don't compromise or shrug off personality traits that disagree with you. If someone gives you a bad "vibe" even though they might be skilled or competent, you may want to look around for someone else. Personality clashes really suck at $150 an hour...

FWIW I'm a CFI and can give you some questions to ask, etc. if you want. PM me.

I seem to be on the year plan, BTW. :D It does add to the overall cost..

I also suspect you'll do very well on your checkride. Sometimes that just happens. I had one guy who didn't get his PPL checkride until he had almost 100 hours and over a year into it (kept getting weathered out, etc.) but he stuck with it and loved it. He went on to get an Instrument Rating and bought a Cherokee 180 that's on leaseback at KSMO - I fly his plane every time I'm out there looking to rent one for fun, just because... ;)

"I found flying fun sometimes, but not fun enough relative to the cost, risk, and level of commitment required."

That's about my sentiment. I got the license in 44 hours but never did break 100. Other things I'd rather do in my spare time.
Jim

A big +1......

I got my ticket in the mid 90's for about 3 grand. I did it in just a few months flying as often as I could in an old C152 that a local FBO had for rent along with a young college student CFI who was instructing to buiid hours.

I think the plane back then was about $45/hr wet and the instructor was $20/hr.

I never took an "official" ground school and basically only paid for about 45 hours of airplane rental and about 20 hours of instructor time.

Check all the small local airports (the smaller the better) to see who is offereing instruction. You do not want to take lessons in controlled airspace as it will waste expensive hobbs time that is better spent learning the basics of "learning to fly the airplane".

IMO, there is no reason to rent a "new" expensive Cessna when one is learning the basics. Learning basic airmanship in a four seat glass paneled airplane is simply a fancy way to light $100 bills on fire. ;) Find a C150/152 or an older Cherokee or an older C172 to take lessons in.

I was a primary flight instructor for many years back in the late 70's, and 80's. A rule of thumb was a private ticket cost about what a semester in college would cost (not talking about Harvard here, a run of the mile sort of college). It has pretty well held up over the years.
Most of the students I had took between 60 and 80 hours to get to the checkride. We used C150's and C152's for primary and saved the C172 or C182 for advanced and/or fat students. The C152 gives immediate feedback to any hamhanded use of the controls or power, which is a useful tool during primary instruction. The quickest was a natural, about 17 years old, that did it in just 40 hours. The longest I recall was over 100 hours.
The solo was the biggest kick I used to get as an instructor, when you tell the student to taxi over to the office and tell him you're getting out, keep it running, and do 3 full stop TO&L :) I hope you and the wife do it, it is a real challenge and addictive if you really get into it!

Getting the certificate is only the first step unless you are just into checking off accomplishment boxes. You have to keep flying, and you have to enjoy it. I got my first cert. 40 years ago, but decided I wanted to spend my money on other things and focused on cars. I went back 5 years ago but realized I was just into it for the checkoff. I still didn't enjoy grinding around the hazy Ohio sky at $75 an hour (the cost of a 172 around here).

I completely disagree. For the first 20 hours - or until you feel comfortable - there is so much new stuff coming at you that an hour at a time is plenty. If you commit to 1 1/2 hours you'll probably be comatose for the last 45 minutes, not learn much of anything, and waste your money.

A lot of truth to that - there's a saturation point that students reach pretty quickly. Just throwing their butt into the airplane as often as possible gets to a point of diminishing returns quickly. They need to be prepared and fresh enough to maximize value and retention from each session.

It's a marathon, not a sprint. Guys that say "I want to be done in a week" scare me. It reflects a potentially unsafe attitude (what will they do the first time they're needing to make a decision between trying to beat bad weather and getting home?) Patience - a healthy amount, is a good thing. It doesn't have to take forever and 2-3x a week can certainly work well, but trying to do "cram" sessions is not something I'm an advocate of at all.

2 hour lessons, twice a week, is just about right.

If looking for general input, I'd have to side with some of the other comments here. It's not only about the $ cost, but opportunity cost. I thought quite a bit about taking it up, speaking to folks that had their license, and those who continue to fly, it's clear it needs to fit into your lifestyle, otherwise you'll be the 100 hour pilot.

If you have a wife/s.o. that does not like it / is afraid of it / won't let your kids fly with you then that gets boring (and very hard to find a time - for your schedule, and the good weather, to overlap. Similarly, if you don't have fun places to fly ("missions"), that wears thin too.

It's fantastic that your wife is interested. I think it would be an amazing thing to share with someone close to you.

If my son got interested, and showed the necessary aptitude & good judgement, I'd seriously think about taking it up as a father/son - but that won't be for quite some time now . . . .

I basically agree with most of the stuff already posted here, I got my ticket in 1977 and things were a lot cheaper then. Since that time I have been both a "renter" and an "owner" (currently) and it has never been a cheap "hobby". My wife is also a pilot as her family was an an aircraft designer/manufacturer until they sold out to the big guy.

I would add something that has not been mentioned, hunt around and see if there is a local CAP chapter near you, this is some of the cheapest flying there is. The Air Force owns and maintains the aircraft and you either pay fuel costs or fly missions for free, as a new member most of the guys there are IP's and you can get some free time (hopefully).

I do agree with one poster above about limiting your initial time in the a/c to 1 hour stints a couple of times a week, you can always add on more after you solo.

And lastly as with most things in life the best "flying" is using someone elses a/c and the best are government owned, I would never have the ratings, (turbine fixed / turbine fling) that I have without access to these aircraft and even got paid to do it at the same time.

Todd :)

Even better, buy a light plane for $25k or so, fly it for 100 hours or so then sell it for what you paid for it, getting the 100 hours more or less free.

I know of several people who have done this, myself included, and it can be done.

Joe A

Agree and most times the student was saturated at the one hour time frame. Fly 2-3 times a week for an hour each time. Any less and you forget what you have learned.

I still think that the 1.5 hr flight lesson is where its at, 1 hour isnt long enough and 2 is too much, for the saturation mode yes its there,
but teaching a student to that point will make them a better pilot in the end, as you will be consistently pushing their envelope, this will over time expand the threshold of their limitation.
The guys that flew the most frequently and for about 1.5 each time were that sharpest guys ,
the 1 hour 2 times a week were the weak ones( this isnt challenging enough for a primary student).
This same idea also goes for the instrument ticket as many times as close as possible.

The other thing pointed out is to do the bookwork as well, if your not reading then you will be missing out.
This fire hose approach is also applied to simulator training,
the more that you get thrown the more you can handle the next time you show up
it been proven to work that way for just about any complicated task

I got mine 20 years ago and it cost me $2200.00 I believe it was. If you decide to do this for you or you and your wife, make sure that you can afford what it will cost you and have that cash available. You do not want to piecemeal the training because you can't afford lessons for a couple of weeks, it will end up costing you twice as much. I used the King videos to assist my training and it was hugely helpful. I am sure you have been flying flight simulator or some such program to practice flying by instruments. That helps too. Seattle can be a tough place to learn with the crappy weather. I learned in SoCal and later flew out of Ft Lewis to your south. What a beautiful area to fly in around Seattle. I loved it. You can do it in 40hrs at whatever the rate per hr is now. Go visit some of your local FBO's, they are wonderful folks. Good luck and have the money first. It really is very easy to do. Then stay current.

Lots of good info on timing... I agree that anything over 1h increments during the first 10h or instruction was overkill for me. After that, when you are a little more relaxed , you can have longer flights and still absorb information. My 2 cents, in this day and age: there is *a lot* you can do to speed things up and prepare yourself... Excellent simulators come to mind, including radio work, ATC stuff, it doesn't hurt... online ground school, which you should do before in my opinion (if you are into flying, you probably know the concepts already)... And then block 2 months of your life and fly as much as you can ;-)

When I did it, it was in Europe and I was 17 at the time. I was taking a driving lesson to head to the airport (18y old to drive, and the driving instructor was a friend who also wanted to fly), I would then take my flight lesson, then he would, then another drive lesson to get home... I was a wet noodle by the time I got home, each time, total mental exhaustion ;-) Talk about cramming ! Made me a decent driver though, some stuff I was learning applied to both, like the constant scanning of the horizon, instruments, etc...

I solo'ed at 7 hours, was pretty proud of myself, then had an engine failure at 14 hours while doing patterns (nearly crapped my pants, but only AFTER landing), and ran out of money at 25h while doing navigation stuff (I wasn't the best financial planner at 17). So yeah, budget it, and fly often... it's very true that if you don't do it regularly, you might as well set $100 bills on fire...

and I kinda agree on the earlier posting about time/reward/danger. If you don't have the time and money to do it regularly after you are licensed, don't do it. It's not like you can park it on the side of the road. I've been waiting for the proper time to get back into it, which I'll do as soon as my newborn lets me sleep at night.

get a gold fish

If you're just doing it for fun, check out the Sport Pilot program:

Learn to Fly - EAA Sport Pilot and Light-Sport Aircraft Information

Lots of good information about training costs, etc. on the site.

My father has his sport pilot license (he used to have a regular pilots license, but got a tumor in his eye, and cannot pass full medical now). Medical for sport pilot is that you qualify for a drivers license.

The downside is that sport pilot planes are expensive, with the exception of the one he has - an Ercoupe:

http://www.gatwick-aviation-museum.c...aphics/er1.jpg

When I first started flying we talked to the tower with a 5 pound, hand held microphone made out of lead and bakelite and got responses from a god-awful speaker somewhere in back of the airplane - when I went back to flying a few years ago I found a good set of noise canceling headphones and a boom mike made life a whole lot easier.

Did you have to hand prop it too?

I guess we are assuming you are talking fixed wing?..The other kind is WAY more

Flight instruction in the Seattle are is going to vary in price depending on if you are willing to travel to some of the outlying general aviation airports. Boeing Field and Renton will cost more at the available operators vs, driving to Thun Field in Puyallup, or Arlington to the north for instance. There are wide options. Clubs and private instruction can help offset the costs but you will have to decide which is more important to you, close and convenient, or further away.

My opinion is why rush it? Enjoy the training and fly often, as many different aircraft as available and go everywhere you can. I would ask for referrals for an instructor and try to find one young enough to be excited - and let the thrill rub off on you, some instructors that I know have access or relationships with several different aircraft sources and will do you right in exposing you to the environment.

In a place like Seattle with the airports and airspace crunched by the geography and weather you can experience the entire range of flight operations from grass strip to 2 mile long paved runways, no radios required to full ATC support, all within a 30 mile circle. Try it all.

The costs ranges I have seen posted around $5000 seem about par.

PS: Flying is the only thing I have found that is an total escape from whatever was going on in your world before you stepped into the aircraft. (For me) It takes, or offers, total concentration on the moment and very few pastimes I have encountered are as rewarding on a personal level. If I had to start over, I would without hestitation. Flying since 1984, airplane number five. Matt.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1314676139.jpg

Oh very cool. What's the Ercoupe like to fly? I like them.

Here is what the local school gave me a month or 2 ago... The sky catcher is a light sports aircraft, a little too light probably (limited X-wind landing etc), off stick (1/2 a yoke or something, feels weird as it's not articulated like a real stick) but has glass cockpit, pretty nice...

http://www.erikaslist.com/pictures/pilot.jpg