Death

[Dottore]

A decade or so ago I was at a dinner attended by the Dalai Lama. The host was a client of mine who contributed major funds to the Tibetan Buddhist cause. At some point in the evening the subject turned to death, and the Dalai Lama started to laugh, quietly at first, and then increasingly hysterically. We were all taken aback, but when things quieted down the Dalai Lama said something like this, “People are always so sad and worried about death. That’s what they are taught. A long time ago I decided that death is funny. Really funny. So now whenever I think about it I have to laugh.” And with that he went back to his food.

I was reading a lot of Buddhist thought at the time, and thought I understood the notion that fear of death really is just the result of being too attached to things in life—and that if you weren’t at all attached to these things, death might indeed not be very frightening. It might even be funny. It was after all just the flip side of life. Without it there would be no life. Not only is there absolutely no point in hoping or believing that life somehow carries on after death, it’s critical to the Buddhist notion of dharma to understand that everything changes and is inherently impermanent. Death is to be embraced, just as we embrace life, just because it is. That should be sufficient.

Buddhists talk about the notion of “death awareness”, and how the constant and clear awareness of death makes it totally acceptable. This is not a dark thought at all. It just is. It’s an awareness that triggered laughter and merriment in the Dalai Lama. I like that thought a lot.

It made we wonder why death was such taboo subject in the Christian home in which I grew up it. It was only mentioned in whispers and never discussed. Whenever someone died it was always a vale of tears, and the grief was dark and thick and oppressive. Although I asked, I never got a satisfactory answer to the question of why everyone was so sad when so and so had gone “to a better place”.

Then two years ago my father got very ill, and I had to watch him die a slow and grinding death. He asked me repeatedly to shoot him or poison him or even just hit him over the head with a hammer. He was in palliative care at the time, and when he realized that palliative care was all about trying to keep him alive, he decided to starve himself to death. It took two weeks, and it wasn’t pretty, but he managed it in the end. He told me throughout this time that he had no fear of death, and that he would much prefer it to the diminished bed-ridden existence, which had become his lot. He had led a rich and full life, and had no qualms about leaving it. I told him my Dalai Lama story, and it was the last time I saw him laugh. “I’ve always liked that guy”, he said.

This past year I had my own medical crisis, and had a lot of time to contemplate my own mortality. That’s all behind me now, but people regularly ask me what it’s like to look death in the face.

For me I can honestly say, it doesn’t frighten me any more. Not at all. I certainly prefer life—but death is always there, just in the background. I’m not laughing about it yet, but hope to be able to one day.

I’d be interested to hear how you guys think about death, and generally deal with the subject. Do you talk to your kids about it? Are you afraid of it or not, and why?

It’d be great if we could keep this out of PARF.

[GH85Carrera]

To most death is a scary thing because that is what they were taught. Like your family I wondered why so many people said the person was in a better place, yet no one wanted to go to that better place right away.

Death is the great equalizer. I have no doubt he would give up all his money for a cure to his illness. His wealth can't buy him health.

[wdfifteen]

The thing that worries me about it is becoming like my father, who has alzheimers. His body still functions, but he isn't there. I don't know if he even knows he's alive. He could go on like this for another decade.

[livi]

Heavy subject.

Death is difficult to comprehensively contemplate without the context of whether you believe in a life after death or not, that is including a variety of religious aspects into the equation. Hence, keeping it out of PARF is formally tricky.

Personally I have been close to a fair share of young death, mostly newborn. I can honestly say that it has not diminished the fear of my own death. My philosophical intellect has yet to comprehend and accept the notion of "not to be".

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

The thing that worries me about it is becoming like my father, who has alzheimers. His body still functions, but he isn't there. I don't know if he even knows he's alive. He could go on like this for another decade.

My Father in Law died that way. He "died" mentally many years before his body did. That is a horrible way to go.

[p911dad]

Good essay. The human is little different from other creatures on this earth in that the survival instinct is very strong, and I think the fear of death is tightly wound into that. Death being the loss of the life, which is what your inner self is fighting, even subconsciously, to keep going. This may be an important part of it. You are hardwired to fear death as part of the operation of the life mechanism.
The vale of tears is in my opinion the grieving process that we all go through, because the death of a loved one is likely the loss of a close and dear friend, someone you will miss and never see again. A big piece is the death of a loved one brings to the fore your own eventual death.
I think an additional question might be, "what is your chosen way to die?" In other words, die in your sleep(I vote for that), die without a premonition of your immediate death, die in a nursing home tied to a chair, die a miserable painful death, die by suicide to avoid a painful death, etc. Of course, you don't get to choose!
We never discussed death with our kids except as you do before the funerals of loved ones. I remember being asked at my mother's funeral, "why did Nana die" and responded that it was her time to go. End of discussion.
I think death is something that rises in your consciousness as part of the aging process, and before that it is just a random event that happens to others. I can't say I am not afraid of death, but at my age it is just when, and not if, so both my wife and I have accepted it will arrive someday, ready or not. We do all we can to make our lives long and healthy, but know someday it all ends.

[sc_rufctr]

Live now... Everybody faces death. You have to accept it as a natural part of life.
Your father did and he was a brave man. He had lived his life and he had accepted it was his time to go.
My father died 14 years ago and he knew it was his time. No hysterics just acceptance and some joy because he felt he could finally rest. He had worked so hard most of his life.

Personally, I don't fear it but I don't welcome it either.

Something to think about...

Do you realise how lucky we are? Only 100 years ago most children died before reaching their teenage years. That's about 6 in 10... 300 years before that it was 9 in 10!
Go and have a look for yourself. All of the old cemeteries are filled with child coffins.

99.9% of humane history has been mostly about real personal loss.

For the first time our modern generations can look forward to a long life with abundant nutrition and adequate health care.
And that has lead to one of the biggest problems we have... Food is so abundant a lot of us a obese to the point of being unhealthy.

Even in the third world they are living longer than anyone did 100 years ago. Sure things could be better but a lot of good things been achieved.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Live now... Everybody faces death. You have to accept it as a natural part of life.

Yes. That's the message.

Somehow I seem to know a lot of people who struggle with this notion.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by p911dad

I think an additional question might be, "what is your chosen way to die?" In other words, die in your sleep(I vote for that), die without a premonition of your immediate death, die in a nursing home tied to a chair, die a miserable painful death, die by suicide to avoid a painful death, etc. Of course, you don't get to choose!

Great reply. Thanks.

This is a big question. It is easy to confuse fear of dying with fear of death. The concept of "dying a good death" is more prevalent in some cultures than others. But it is worth giving some thought to this in your lifetime (I think) and discussing this with your loved ones. There is much a person can do to get this right.

[Jandrews]

Powerful post, Dottore.

I tend to agree with the Dalai Lama, and with your ambitions of how you want to perceive death.

That said, I wonder if the choice to "accept it" or to "find it funny" is nothing more than a defense mechanism to avoid dealing with something that we are, as another poster stated, "hardwired to fear".

For my part, I DEFINITELY fear the thought of being injured or diseased to a point where I am technically "alive", but unable to really participate in life. The thought of a chronic disease is MUCH more daunting to me then just "losing it all" quickly.

This post also makes me think about all the planning and positioning that we do. Most of us on this board who are successful, work extremely hard and make a lot of sacrifices, with laser focus on providing for "the future". I am 46, and I spend a lot of energy making sure that my family has what it needs now, and when I retire. We certainly enjoy everyday, and spend all of our free time together as a family at home playing together, on vacation, traveling, etc... But, it makes me wonder about the "balance" between today and tomorrow.

And congrats to you for having a brave, strong father, and for being there for him at the end. My dad died of ALS when I was 18. He went from being able to beat me in arm-wrestling to dead in 11 months. He smiled the whole way, and never complained about his illness, nor expressed any regrets in his life. That strength played a major part in making me who I am as an adult, and I carry it with me every day.

Very compelling post, on many levels. Thanks,

JA

[Drisump]

Great topic Dottore, I have never met the Dalai Lama but know a couple of people that have. Those I know, all seem to have taken something special out of the encounter. Without a healthy "preference" for the state of life (as opposed to death), ones life would either be woefully short or likely, completely without joy.....quite possibly both. IMHO an individuals concept of death, in many ways is what defines their approach to life, whether it be priorities, risk aversion, empathy...etc. I'm not sure if I could say that I do not fear death, but I accept it's constant presence. Even though I prefer the the live state and would do a great many things to preserve it. Cheers

[Rikao4]

D ?
other than being against the law..
why didn't you help your father 'leave'...
seems as folks slide to other side..
it stop's being about them..
and more about the folks staying behind..

Rika

[Hard-Deck]

I have dealt with death a LOT. From the spectrum of combat to losing my Mother last year after 4 years of slight suffering from 5 strokes then pancreatic cancer. The consoling thing about the cancer was that my Mom didn't know she had cancer due to the result of the strokes, so she was actually a happy-go-lucky person right up to the moment she died.

I don't fear death but the thing that bothers me the most is that I know that my children would miss me and I am sad from that possibility....I'd hate to see them sad and crying over my death.

I vow to never be taken captive alive in combat....

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by Rikao4

D ?
other than being against the law..
why didn't you help your father 'leave'...
seems as folks slide to other side..
it stop's being about them..
and more about the folks staying behind..

Rika

My brother and I debated this. We also discussed it with the hospital—with predictable results. We really didn't want manslaughter charges. If we had known then, what we know now, we might have tried to fly him to Switzerland or Holland, where there are very civilized clinics that would have helped him slide to the other side in a lovely purple haze. You live you learn.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by Jandrews

That said, I wonder if the choice to "accept it" or to "find it funny" is nothing more than a defense mechanism to avoid dealing with something that we are, as another poster stated, "hardwired to fear".
JA

Possibly.

I prefer to think that we are hard-wired to fear dying, ie., to fear losing our life. I don't think we're hard wired to fear death per se. Of course I could be wrong. But that is where I come out after giving this much thought.

[LakeCleElum]

Markus: I think how we view death depends largely upon your religion. All I'm aware of belief in an after-life of some sort. Most would teach it's a better life, so if you believe, what do you have to fear? Other than being separated for the time being from your loved ones?

For the non-believer, it's the end and that bothers most. For many of the older like your dear father, death is relief from pain and a chance for a really good nap!

Here's respect to your father - he suffered enough.

[sammyg2]

I don't fear death.
Without getting PARFy, I have faced death and it was way beyond anything I could decribe, just bliss, joy, the total absence of anything negative or painful.
None of that floating or seeing myself, wasn't like that. More like bright static from channel 3 but warm and pleasant, not harsh.

[RKC]

I more or less lost my fear of death in my late teens when I happened upon the Stoics - Seneca's letters & Marcus Aurelius in particular - it all just seemed to make sense suddenly. Buddhism helps, as did Socrates arguing that it is binary - we either go somewhere or nowhere, and neither is all that bad - which cemented the deal.

My grandfather went about 5 years ago at nearly 101, in much the way your father did. It still hurt, and philosophy seemed of less use than Vodka for a few days. Then I remembered Twain saying that humor was mankind's most powerful weapon, and found what I needed:

"All say, 'How hard it is that we have to die' - a strange complaint from the mouths of people who have had to live." - Mark Twain

[krystar]

also in Buddhist teachings, death is not truely the end until Judeo-christian teachings. In Judeo-christian, when u die, u get judged by God and sent to either live among angels in heaven or burn in pits of hell. There's a distinct boundary between "living here and now" and afterwards.

In buddhist teachings, one's life spirit is reborn in another form after its term in this human body. so there is no "the end" Especially to the current Dalai Lama, since he IS the 14th reborn life spirit.

[Rikao4]

Originally Posted by Dottore

"dying a good death"

think most folks can accept this..
it's the crawl that folks fear..
I was / have been around folks checking out...
all hated having picked a high #...
only to see..
now serving # 3..

Rika