My Grandfather Died - Now I Need Advice

[onewhippedpuppy]

I lost my grandfather today, after 80 years and 60 years of marriage to my grandmother. He died in his sleep, which is exactly how he would have wanted to go. He was an inspiration to me in many, many ways and is the person that I credit for who I am today. It's been a very tough day, but now I need some advice.

My grandmother is still with us, but is not in particularly good physical and mental health. Beyond her health struggles she has never even as much as taken care of household expenses, my grandfather took care of everything and gave her an allowance. She is still healthy enough to live alone, and she lives next door to my parents so help isn't far. My grandfather was a very successful self-made businessman, and despite being very private with his finances we expect the estate to be substantial. Involved will be multiple corporations as well as a number of personal accounts and investments, and the kicker is that thus far we haven't found a will.

Family background is my mother (daugher) who is the company office manager of 40+ years, her sister in CO, and her brother in TX. Brother was previously partners with my grandfather in his business with the intent of my grandfather passing it on to him, my grandfather kicked him out of the business when it surfaced that he was stealing from the company. This individual hasn't been shy about his feelings of entitlement, and has done very little with his life. Bottom line, I fully expect him to do all that he can to grab as much as possible from my grandmother.

I've spoken to a lawyer friend and passed along the information to my mother, I'm pushing them to set up a trust for my grandmother, meet with a good probate attorney ASAP, and look into some sort of limited power of attorney that would keep her from signing over large amounts of money or assets. The primary goal is to insure that my grandmother is well taken care of for the remainder of her life by providing for her and protecting her assets. Other trusted 3rd parties in this would be my grandfather's CPA of 40-ish years and his investment broker that is also a good friend. I suggested to my mother that someone like the CPA would make a great impartial manager of the trust and power of attorney to reduce any fighting within the family.

What am I missing, and has anyone dealt with a similar situation?

[stomachmonkey]

My condolences.

I think you are doing exactly what your Grandfather would have wanted.

Keeping peace within the family is a noble thought but your Uncle has already thrown the gauntlet.

The fact that you have not found a will might be to your benefit.

It would mean everything passes to her or at least be split evenly between heirs.

Your Uncle may get more than he deserves but won't be able to take more than the law allows.

He's got nothing to contest.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Thanks. My only reservation is that the lack of a will means that we don't really know his wishes. He was a very private man with money, and firmly believed that it was virtuous to earn everything in life. Therefore he was not prone to giving financially, he believed anything worth having was worth working for. Even at 80 he worked 6 full days per week, work was his passion. I just hate to see his company liquidated, his life's work dissolved, and the proceeds distributed. I desperately wish he had documented what his wishes were, and I'm still holding out hope that they find a will.

[Joeaksa]

Agreed! Set up a trust and put people in charge who will take care of things. All of my expensive things were sold years ago and the trust takes care of them. When I "head West" its all taken care of now and sure makes things a lot easier.

[E38Driver]

Sorry for your loss.

Dave

[stomachmonkey]

Keep looking.

My father and your grandfather sound very much alike.

Unfortunately it sometimes means things don't go as planned.

My father had a DNR, would have been good for him to let us know before I finally made the decision to pull the plug. Would have made it easier had I known.

He would also have been buried in his dress blues as he wanted.

Make sure everyone who is looking for the will knows to not pull any staples. They may think it's a good idea to make copies for everyone but all it does is invalidate the will.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Good advice, thanks and I'll pass it along. They found the key to his known safe deposit box late today and we're hoping they find a will tomorrow. He has paperwork everywhere, he never threw anything away. Because he never told anyone about his finances this is all a mystery, even to his wife.

[McLovin]

Sorry to hear about your loss.

As far as a will, I would think he doesn't need one. Since your mother is alive, everything automatically would go to her, without the need for a will. (In most, and probably all, states).

But now that it's just your mother, she needs some kind of will or trust (probably both, a trust and some kind of pourover will).

I don't really understand your part about appointing some CPA or other third party as a trustee. I don't think that's the normal course. The trustee (well, I think technically the successor trustee, since your grandmother would be the initial trustee in a typical revocable trust/living trust) would normally be the beneficiaries, i.e., the kids. If your grandmother doesn't want to include your uncle as a trustee under the trust, she shouldn't. Just make your mother the trustee, if that's what your grandmother wants. The trust/will is your mother's time to decide what goes to who, and she should make that decision.

Me, personally, I would never name ANY non-family member as the first successor trustee for my revocable trust, not if I had living children. I would always put one or more of my living children as the first successor trustee(s).

If there is going to be fighting, putting a third party as the first successor trustee isn't going to help one bit, IMO.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Thanks. My only reservation is that the lack of a will means that we don't really know his wishes. He was a very private man with money, and firmly believed that it was virtuous to earn everything in life. Therefore he was not prone to giving financially, he believed anything worth having was worth working for. Even at 80 he worked 6 full days per week, work was his passion. I just hate to see his company liquidated, his life's work dissolved, and the proceeds distributed. I desperately wish he had documented what his wishes were, and I'm still holding out hope that they find a will.

Do you have reason to believe that he would not want everything to go to his wife??

Why do you think there is any danger of "his company liquidated, his life's work dissolved, and the proceeds distributed?"

[rattlsnak]

If there is ANY money (life insurance, property, bank, etc) involved, get a lawyer. He will tell you the correct course of action so you dont lose most of it in taxes. My parents have a living trust and it is over 450 pages. I kid you not..

[crustychief]

Matt, Sorry to hear of your loss.
Regards,
Sandy

[craig722]

Maybe this will help. Hope you have access to a responsible lawyer. It can get complicated.
State laws rule.

Probing Probate: What You Should Know - For Dummies

Hope you find the will. The cost of probate escalates if there is no will. And of course, if there is a challenge from a family member, the lawyers involved can drain the estate.
Good luck and sorry for our loss.

[Geronimo '74]

Sorry to hear about your grandfather passing.

(can't help with the financial issue, sorry)

[onewhippedpuppy]

Maybe I managed to screw up the verbiage regarding the trust manager and power of attorney, the idea was to appoint someone impartial and non-family to manage it. My thought was that having someone fair and impartial would reduce the potential infighting and personal bias.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Quote de onewhippedpuppy

Thanks. My only reservation is that the lack of a will means that we don't really know his wishes. He was a very private man with money, and firmly believed that it was virtuous to earn everything in life. Therefore he was not prone to giving financially, he believed anything worth having was worth working for. Even at 80 he worked 6 full days per week, work was his passion. I just hate to see his company liquidated, his life's work dissolved, and the proceeds distributed. I desperately wish he had documented what his wishes were, and I'm still holding out hope that they find a will.

Do you have reason to believe that he would not want everything to go to his wife??



Why do you think there is any danger of "his company liquidated, his life's work dissolved, and the proceeds distributed?"

He was everything to his business, without him I honestly don't know how it will go on. My grandmother certainly isn't equipped to run it, frankly I see selling it as the only option with the proceeds going to my grandmother. But that's my opinion, I'd like to know his....

[svandamme]

My condolences, as for the issue at hand.
We had some similar issues when my grandparents died.

Essentially it all boils down to how your grandfather took care of things.
In My family everybody knew what they both wanted, but nothing was put in paper

IT wasn't about a huge estage, or big value , it was about emotional things, memories , and the way to deal with the house and memories.
The idea was to get together as brothers and sisters, and have a final sitdown at the big table before doing anything to the house.

It wasn't meant to be, 2 of the inlaws took controle, causing 1 brother and 1 sister to oppose everything... And my mother being the undercutting , vicious C that she is, took sides with them because she wanted to haul things out herself.

the 2 remaining brothers, the ones that wanted to say good bye to the house they grew up in, and myself who was raised there as sort of the 6th one (because my mum didn't bother).. were cut out..
And the 2 remaining brothers did not block things via attorneys or notaries because they were to emotional about being stabbed in the back by their own brothers.


You want my advice : Look at things without letting the emotional side take over.
Have things run by the book, no exceptions whatsoever.

[Por_sha911]

Condolences to the family.
To find the will there are two places the will (or a valid copy) may be located:
1) see if your grandfather's personal attorney (or the one used for the company) kept a copy
2) see if the will was registered with the county court/clerk of deeds.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by svandamme

You want my advice : Look at things without letting the emotional side take over.

Have things run by the book, no exceptions whatsoever.

I know you were looking for legal advice, Matt, but svandamme captured what will undoubtedly be the most difficult aspect of the next six months.

Stay in constant contact with your Mom...she'll probably see a side of the family she may have anticipated but one which will still surprise her.

My heartfelt condolences for the loss of your Grandfather.

[Rot 911]

Matt, lots of misinformation in this thread. Take your own advice and seek out a probate attorney. You can't just set up a trust for your grandmother and put everything of your grandfather's in it. Unless she is declared by a court to be incompetent, she makes her own decisions as to her life and finances.

If no will, then this is how Kansas law divides the property:

Kansas Statute Annotated 59-504: Surviving spouse. If the decedent leaves a spouse and no children nor issue of a previously deceased child, all the decedent's property shall pass to the surviving spouse. If the decedent leaves a spouse and a child, or children, or issue of a previously deceased child or children, one-half of such property shall pass to the surviving spouse.

History: L. 1939, ch. 180, § 26; July 1.

Kansas Statute Annotated 59-505: Same; half of realty to surviving spouse. Except as provided further, the surviving spouse shall be entitled to receive one-half of all real estate of which the decedent at any time during the marriage was seized or possessed and to the disposition whereof the survivor shall not have consented in writing, or by a will, or by an election as provided by law to take under a will, except such real estate as has been sold on execution or judicial sale, or taken by other legal proceeding. The surviving spouse shall not be entitled to any interest under the provisions of this section in any real estate of which such decedent in such decedent's lifetime made a conveyance, when such spouse at the time of the conveyance was not a resident of this state and never had been during the existence of the marriage relation. The spouse's entitlement under this section shall be included as part of the surviving spouse's property under K.S.A. 59-6a207, and amendments thereto.

History: L. 1939, ch. 180, § 27; L. 1996, ch. 53, § 1; July 1.

[Drisump]

When my dad died and my mother was alive and healthy there was no question in my mind who had dibs on the entire estate..... my mother.
Being appointed as the executor, I went through the probate process for her and it worked very well. It sounds like your grand-dad handed off the responsibility to your grandmother (unintentionally) to disperse the estate as she sees fit. In my case, the entire estate went to my mother and she dispersed the estate when she passed. Clean and simple, you are not going to please everyone, but inheritances are gifts, not rights. When the shock has diminished I would encourage your grandmother to do a will to minimize the acrimony later. It's a challenging time and my condolences to you and your family.