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Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen (Post 6270872)

Yep. You really worked hard for the best treatment. REALLY hard...

You car salesmen get really pissed if a customer hasn't worked REALLY hard for the best treatment, eh?

working with a dipshot salesperson at a dealer that has nothing to offer but price...

Nothing to offer but price? Like what?

So the salesman's a dipshot. So what? I'm buying a car! All I REALLY care about IS price. Do you think that a lot of car buyers give a flying f*ck about feeling like they are going to become bosom buddies with a glad-handing car salesman?

Gimme a break. Some freakin' ego. :rolleyes:

And one dealer didn't have it on their lot!? Really!? Because the dealer with the "BEST PRICE" was going to locate one from another lot anyway.

Why the hell would I care that the dealer with the "BEST PRICE" was going to locate one from another lot?

If the first or second were great dealers...

Great dealers? What's a 'great dealer'? Are they analogous to, say, 'great gas stations' or 'great supermarkets'?

If you really want to be treated well,

What do you mean 'treated well'? PRICE is all I care about. If I get a good PRICE, that's being treated well. What the hell else does ANY dealership have to offer me? To pay (to quote you), "say, $200 more on a $25,000 transaction to be treated with integrity and respect, to start a long-term relationship with a company that treats you well and shoots straight?"

Yeah, right. :rolleyes: What a load of crap. All I care about the salesman doing is filling out the forms, like he's getting paid to do, getting my signature and handing me the keys so I can leave and go about my business.

Oh, but you want to have a great relationship with the great salesman at the great dealership so they'll be sure to give you great service and will do a great job for you if you have to have warranty repairs done!

That's a load of crap too. Dealer shops operate autonomously from the sales department and they don't give a damn whether you and the great salesman liked each other or not. They just want your business. And I can take the car into ANY dealership for service and warranty work if I don't like the dealer I bought the car from. Or I can take it to my own mechanic if I want to.

*I'll say it again* FIRST choose...

You know, the 'Authoritarian Approach' will send most car buyers right back off your lot, don't you?

Bottom line is I'll treat a car salesman with the same courtesy and respect that I treat anyone else from whom I'm purchasing something. There's not thing one that makes them any better or more 'special' than anyone else making their living in sales.

Quote:

Originally Posted by krichard (Post 6265045)

The dealer can't throw the "integrity" thing at you since they openly admitted they made the original 27700 offer to "get you in there" and then couldn't honor it. Unless you signed on the bottom line, there was no deal.....

Right on! (Unless the $27,700 was disclosed as a cash only price)
Look, these people are generally unscrupulous from the top down. It's like trying to shame a whore. One of the few groups of people with whom I speak...frankly.

DARISC-

You made one great point: That you'll treat a car salesperson with the same courtesy and respect that you treat anyone else from whom you're purchasing something. Good for you.

The rest of your points.....

If you want ONLY the best price and don't care about how you're treated, you're in luck. You'll be successful. But you can have BOTH. It just takes a little work, if you're interested.

If dealers offered no value add whatsoever, then they wouldn't be in prime locations with clean new multi-million dollar buildings. They wouldn't have comfortable lounges. They wouldn't have free shuttles or loaner cars. They wouldn't have millions of dollars of inventory for you to choose from -- they'd just go dealer-trade for the one you want. The wouldn't go to bat for you when it came to warranty coverage. They wouldn't invest in the latest tools or diagnostics, or send their their technicians to training. They wouldn't offer free car washes for owners. They wouldn't have service hours until midnight, or Saturdays. They wouldn't invest in training their salespeople on product or best-practices. They wouldn't offer test drives. They wouldn't handle registration and titling your new car -- you go to the DMV. They wouldn't offer financing -- you go to your bank. They wouldn't have return policies. They wouldn't inspect or warrant their used cars.They wouldn't have salespeople that could advise you of the best vehicles (or options, packages, incentives, financing, etc)to suit your particular needs.

Nope. They'd be internet portals that delivered the car you chose directly to your door. I'd kinda like that.

MOST people, 90% of the public, would NOT do well in the long run with this option. They need guidance navigating their options to make a good decision. They need a place to service their cars after the sale. They'd rather touch, smell, test, and feel the car they will be buying. They just want to be treated well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen (Post 6271114)

...If you want ONLY the best price and don't care about how you're treated, you're in luck. You'll be successful. But you can have BOTH. It just takes a little work, if you're interested.

If dealers offered no value add whatsoever, then they wouldn't be in prime locations with clean new multi-million dollar buildings. They wouldn't have comfortable lounges. They wouldn't have free shuttles or loaner cars. They wouldn't have millions of dollars of inventory for you to choose from -- they'd just go dealer-trade for the one you want. The wouldn't go to bat for you when it came to warranty coverage. They wouldn't invest in the latest tools or diagnostics, or send their their technicians to training. They wouldn't offer free car washes for owners. They wouldn't have service hours until midnight, or Saturdays. They wouldn't invest in training their salespeople on product or best-practices. They wouldn't offer test drives. They wouldn't handle registration and titling your new car -- you go to the DMV. They wouldn't offer financing -- you go to your bank. They wouldn't have return policies. They wouldn't inspect or warrant their used cars.They wouldn't have salespeople that could advise you of the best vehicles (or options, packages, incentives, financing, etc)to suit your particular needs.

With the exception of that in red (but, what do you mean by return policies?), I really don't care about all the other foo foo stuff. I'll take the car I buy into the dealer who has the best shop, or my mechanic.

If I'm buying used from a dealer, I'll buy a pre-owned dealer warranted car, which I did a year ago, an '06 Volvo V70 R to haul my artwork in. And, in CA at least, dealers have to ensure by law that brakes, tires, etc,, meet certain safety standards, so if I'm buying used I'll see if a dealer has what I want rather than go for a private sale.

I don't like 'haggling' and bought new through fleet sales years ago (mentioned in a previous post). Someone told me that markups have diminished to the point that it doesn't work that way anymore, I dunno.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DARISC (Post 6271178)

With the exception of that in red (but, what do you mean by return policies?)

Some dealers offer 3 day or 150 mile return or exchange policies no-questions-asked. That way you're not screwed if you found out the vehicle wasn't for you after more than a simple 20 minute test drive.

Quote:

I really don't care about all the other foo foo stuff.

But most people do. Convenience (like location) is a big deal to some

Quote:

I'll take the car I buy into the dealer who has the best shop, or my mechanic.

Dealers wouldn't have shops if they didn't profitably sell cars. You'd take your new car to your independent mechanic for what might be free warranty work on your new car?

Quote:

And, in CA at least, dealers have to ensure by law that brakes, tires, etc,, meet certain safety standards, so if I'm buying used I'll see if a dealer has what I want rather than go for a private sale.

Sounds like a value add. You paid extra (I assume) and you were happy about it.
It's that way in many states, including here. Dealers must inspect the cars and disclose their findings using a checklist displayed on the window of each car.
Here's the comprehensive checklist, that is signed by both dealer and customer:
http://gmaprinting.com/shopcart/images/products/mv2872.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1316804807.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen (Post 6271219)

Some dealers offer 3 day or 150 mile return or exchange policies no-questions-asked.

I could be uninformed, but not in SOCAL as far as I know.

But most people do. Convenience (like location) is a big deal to some

Oh, I know. I only speak for myself.

Dealers wouldn't have shops if they didn't profitably sell cars. You'd take your new car to your independent mechanic for what might be free warranty work on your new car?

Yes. I took the Volvo to my indy for two minor warranty repairs, no charge to me, my mech. got paid by Volvo. Then the AC compressor went out and my mech. told me to take it to a dealer (one nearer me than where I bought it) - don't remember if he was authorized to do that particular work or not. In CA, it's the law that you don't have to have warranty work done by the dealer.

Sounds like a value add. You paid extra (I assume) and you were happy about it.

Paid extra for what value add?

It's that way in many states, including here. Dealers must inspect the cars and disclose their findings using a checklist displayed on the window of each car.

Similar here in CA.

Here's the comprehensive checklist, that is signed by both dealer and customer:
http://gmaprinting.com/shopcart/images/products/mv2872.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1316804807.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macroni (Post 6270407)

Read the thread about the Doctor who sold the 190SL for $10,000 to a member. I would love to compare names and opinions thread to thread......

Another good example of the double standard that says its OK for us to not disclose but the dealer has to...

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen (Post 6270667)

Some dealers have a 'pack' they add to a car and calculate the salesperson's commission on anything above that figure. It's really just a way to advertise higher commission rates.... "We pay 40% commissions!!", but 40% of eveerything over invoice and a $200 pack is probably the same as 20% paid from net less holdback.

As you may gather from my other posts, I believe salespeople should be paid based on performance, not profit. In a one-price non-negotiating dealership, the best way is to pay a flat amount per unit with incentives for volume. That way if it is in the customer's best interest to buy a $5000 car rather than a $30,000 car, there's little incentive to 'sell' them something they don't need..... they just help them 'buy' what fits. Chances are the salesperson put as much effort into selling the cheap car anyway

Back in the 80's, "pack" (I couldn't think of the phrase earlier) was as much as $500-900 on some units. It was a ripoff since the commissions were still based on gross. Flat commission per unit with volume bonuses has its down-sides. The reps cherry-pick the high volume models and don't even show other units (unless there is a spiff added for selling that unit). Worst of all, I've seen where a store that sells 150 units a month has 20 reps but the bonuses don't kick in until you hit 10 units a month. This encourages lot-lizards working bell to bell 6 or 7 days a week. The average working guy who has a family can't get enough volume to make a decent living. Lastly, high volume/low gross stores usually put a heavy emphasis on F&I and if you aren't the F&I guy (or the house) you are on the losing end yet again.
On the other hand, back when I sold based on gross over pack, I had F&I managers that actually lowered my agreed selling price so they could add the Extended Warranty and keep the monthly payments the same for the customer. The $10 bonus I got for the Warranty didn't quite cover the $900 lost gross.
I got tired of:
- reps stealing return customers (they asked for me but the other rep claims they never said a word)
- reps expecting half the deal because my delivery came in 5 minutes before my shift and all the rep did was walk them to the F&I office waiting room.
- customers burning my day with test drives and then remember they know the owner and 100% of the deal gets flipped to his worthless son who can't sell bread to a starving man.

As far as the hypothetical guy that shook hands and then came back but the car was gone:
The rep probably let a sale walk out the door. 99% of the time, the "Be-back Bus" crashed and burned with no survivors. The rep should have said "no guarantee it will be here" (of course, now he's high pressure). I have never seen a dealer hold a car with no money down, no paperwork. Sad to say but "Money talks, everything else walks".