Chevy engine rebuild question
 

I turned 299,000 miles on my El Camino daily driver yesterday. I have owned it for 20 years and plan to drive it another 20. :D

I am thinking it is time for an engine rebuild after I hit 300,000 miles. It has the original 305 engine in it now and the heads have never been off! 1000 miles after an oil change the oil is still so clear it is hard to see on the dip stick. The blow by is getting pretty bad. The valve covers leak, the oil filler cap oozes oil and the PCV valve gets full of oil regularly. I put it on the dyno just after I converted it to fuel injection 100,000 miles ago and it was pumping out 115 HP and 215 lb ft of torque.

I know the majority of you will recommend to scrap the 305 and put in a crate 350 and that is one option. I really don’t care about a lot more HP in the car, I just don’t ever plan to street race, and it has enough power to get me on down the road. In 20 years I have never wanted to do a burn out or drag race.

I want to take apart the engine just to see how worn it is. I am really leaning towards doing a full rebuild on the engine. My thoughts are that I can pick up a used set of 305 heads for little or nothing. Get all the machine work done and have them ready to go before I even pull the engine. I feel sure the original cam is worn so I will replace it with the RV cam. I still want low end torque and really don’t want to go to a high rev engine.

Right now it has the original cast iron exhaust manifolds. I think the new engine rebuild would be the right time for headers and dual exhaust. I already have a dual hump cross-member.

What other “while I am in there” things can add a few HP and not cost a lot? I figure if I can get to 175 to 200 HP I will have a ton more power than I do now and an engine that should go for another 300,000 miles.

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Glen I would look into something the Edelbrock performer package. which is basiclly a new top end.. Carb, intake, heads, cam. There is all different packages depend on what you are looking for.

While a 350 WOULD be a better choice, you can do the same basic hot rod tricks to a 305.

The heads can be bought very cheaply, as you mentioned.

Throw on an aluminum intake(used), headers(used) and a good true dual exhaust system.

A Carter AFB 4BBL is a great street carb but can be hard to find. A used Edelbrock is just as good.
I would replace the timing chain with a double roller version and install it "straight up" versus advanced or retarded.

A good ignition system like MSD or Mallory in addition to the factory HEI setup along with new plugs and wires will make sure the spark is good.

Don't you need to have a mullet to be driving that thing? :-)
Have you done a leak down ?

swapping to a 350 would be the most cost effective thing to do- will cost you about the same as buying a reman 305, there really is no reason to keep the 305 except for sentimental value.

If you really want to get creative find a mid-late 90's Chev truck 350, it's set up for roller cam- rebuild the vortec heads but then you need a new manifold to use with your FI setup.

If you go basic 350, apart from a cam swap, intake manifold (CL has a million of 'em for sale), and headers get the thing set up on a chassis dyno for your FI call it a day.

rjp

Does it have EFI? If so, forget my suggestions on carburators.

This^^

yep.

I'd do some research into what they used to do with the old Camaro and TransAm 305s and try to duplicate that. I would expect there to be "good" heads and "bad" heads for 305s. If you want to nearly double the power, I'd definitely find out what the "good" heads are.

If you go the 350 route, then just about any 350 and any head will work well enough to get you your 200hp.

They also make some very basic RV style crate motors that are a bunch cheaper than stuff like the ZZ4 and that sort of thing. You might want to look into that. A factory motor (crate) will usually last a lot longer than a rebuilt unless the rebuilt is done very carefully.

Bah.
Have a shop resurface the heads and do a valve job and install new valves and guides.
Take the block .010" over on the block (or more if necessary).
Get em to clean the block and install new cam bearings and inspect the crank journals for wear. Grind if necessary.
Replace the pistons, rings, and bearings.
Make sure ya put in a new oil pump, the new plastic thing that drives the oil pump, and a new timing chain set.

That's only an afternoon and a 12 pack. Half the cost of a long block.

Find a cheap 350 powered Buick Roadmaster, and swap the drivetrain, and electronics. Plenty O' power, and a 4 speed auto. It should get pretty good fuel mileage too. Plus, you can get parts at any auto parts store. Should make it more enjoyable to drive, too. I always wanted to do that with mine.

Chevy engine rebuild question
 

Without a doubt the best thing I ever did to the Elky was get rid of the carb an install a throttle body fuel injection system. It starts and runs like a modern car.

I may spend the 50 bucks to dyno it one last time after 300,000 miles just to know.

I will report on the engine rebuild just to record the adventure. I really want to rebuild it myself just for the adventure. I have several friends that are gurus on small block engines. I will seek any and all advice and then make up my mind what to do.

Chevy engine rebuild question
 

My first SBC rebuild lasted 1000 miles. Spun a bearing. I did it again and it lasted forever.

Chevy had factory 305's with a carb putting out 180 hp in the mid '80's. An RV cam, your FI, and an open exhaust should easliy meet your goals. If memory serves a 305 has a long stroke and a narrow bore, trading upper rpm power for milage and low rpm torque. It's your money and your car.

you could always get a junkyard 350 and rebuild that. Same experience, better motor.

305 is basically a smaller bore 350. Same stroke, smaller bore.

Pace Performance | GM Performance Automotive/Truck Parts & Accessories

That's the place I've had great luck with (all sorts of crate engines, mild to wild).

327 is the perfect small block for fun IMO, 3 1/4" stroke x 4" bore.

Revs till there's no tomorrow and it'll do it with the 1.94 heads. 2.02s are even better.

Perfect.
GM Goodwrench - 10067353 - New Chevy 350 CID, 5.7L , V8 - Universal Crate Engine, Factory Replacement for 71-85 GM Cars & Trucks

10067353 - New Chevy 350 CID, 5.7L , V8 - Universal Crate Engine, Factory Replacement for 71-85 GM Cars & Trucks

$1400

Hmm, he's got an '86. It appears to be an odd-ball that's going to cost more. Figures. That'd be my luck. I guess the flywheel bolt pattern is different, but I'm not sure if that's all. A flywheel would be cheap and easy though.

I always wanted to drive a 302 Chevy.

You'd need to live near an airport. The compression needed for the cam that would provide the revs to fulfill that engine's potential needs more octane than you can get at the pump today. Still, that would make a well set up 944 moreso.

Always had great luck with these kits.

Chevy 305-G (carb) Car 1984-1986 | Northern Auto Parts:

Off track a bit but.....



A small block 400 with a mild cam a good set of 1.94 heads would be a great swap. They are getting harder to find but are still out there.

I believe that the so called HO 305 motors as found in ss monte carlo, trans am, and z28 cars had better heads with larger valves, decent ports, and smaller chambers that upped compression slightly. I think we even used these once or twice on mild hot rod 350's. Not optimal, but I remember one that ran real good using 305 heads. I would think that running flat top pistons , and these heads, should put you somewhere around 9.5 to 1. Don't be afraid to use a little cam. I used to change a ton of cams in all of these cars back in the day. Most of the time we just shoved stock ones back in , but there was a grind that I used on a bunch of cars that really woke them up, without much low end sacrifice. I am sure there are even better cam grinds out there now.
I see nothing wrong with a 305, it should meet your goals just fine. I had a couple that were mild hot rods, ran pretty good., and still returned ok mileage.
I would use a high volume oil pump,new pickup to go with it, and a pinned shaft with a steel sleeve, and slightly larger stamped steel oil pan, and we always ran the deep truck oil filters.
You should be able to pull all this off for about the cost of a Porsche oil pump.
Unless you like tinkering, headers are a pain in the ass. I would just run manifolds, a y pipe, and a cat, if you have to, to keep it legal.
Heck yeah, build it, anybody can write a check for a crate motor. Enjoy your own creation .
I really miss those early days of my wrenching career. This project should be enjoyable and rewarding. Don't forget to pretty it up a little while it is out and apart. Blast and paint the brackets, clean up the engine bay real good. etc. Dress up stuff optional, I would leave it looking stock.

With 300000 mi that original 305 has done OK I have seen them go 6-700,000 in taxis but usually much less . Your cylinder bores will have too much taper to just re-ring and the valve guides and cam will be shot. The cost to rebuild a 305 or a 350 are almost the same The 305 will get much better gas mileage but the 350 will produce more power for sure.
There aren,t many internal performance options on a 305.The small bore limits the valve sizes to max 1.88 in and 1.5 exhaust.(used in the HO and many 4 bbl 305 heads. The 305 engine doesn,t like hot cams. The 350 can use big valve heads and will tolerate much more cam.If torque is the goal then the small chamber 305 heads can be fitted with the 1.94 intake. That gives a small chamber and a bit more compression . The small port 305 heads will flow up to about 4500rpm on a 350 .That big an intake will overhang the bore on a 305.
If you need the power go for a stock 350 or a later 305 with a roller cam is another option probably about the same power ,little less torque. I wouldn,t bother rebuilding the engine you have unless correct serial number/date etc is an issue

Lt1 swap....

By the time you get the heads,machine work & other stuff you could have bought a new GM crate motor. Its just not worth the time & money to do a rebuild anymore on a SB Chevy,unless it is something special.

Thanks guys for all the comments. One of my buddies keep trying to get me to drop a new Corvette engine in it. That ain't gonna happen. :)

A friend of mine has a machine shop. He specializes in 911 engines but has done more than a few small block engines. He will let me be hands on with the machine work. I have a lot of research to do and I may end up with a crate engine.

I'm a big chevy guy - had LOT's of experience over the last 35 years. My opinion. The 305 stock or modified is a boat anchor, period. Unless you REALLY want to rebuild it yourself, you'll do much better dollar-wise and time-wise by buying a complete running package - OR long block and purchase the correct carb/manifold style and size and jet it according to the engine builders recc's

There are soooooo many waaaaaaaaay better choices like this than to re-bop a 305 which, by the way, GM was short-changing the amount and actual quality of the steel in the block and cyl head castings at that time. If you do the build properly with that much mileage - plan on replacing every moving part - or you'll pay for it later.

Example: If you had a machine shop completely (and correctly) refurbish those heads including all machine work, parts and labor - you could buy a set of Edlebrock aluminum street heads complete. Technology and manufacturing has come such a long way that rebuilding an engine of that era is pointless. To that end many machine shops I have known are either out of business OR are frantically looking to laterally move their equipment and talent in a new direction

+1 an alloy LT1 even better with a 6 speed

One of my El Camino on-line forum friends did a complete drive train and suspension swap from a late model Corvette. It is better described as a Corvette with a El Camino body. He takes it to the track and has fun passing sports cars. He could have bought a new Z06 for less money.

I have a 2004R transmission. It is a 4 speed with a full lockup torque converter & I have a limited slip rear end. That part of the drive train is fine and will not be touched.

GH85,

I have a nice RV Cam (Crower 250 HDP), adjustable steel timing gear & chain set, and pushrods that you could have for $50.
I will guarantee it good, not even 10,000 miles on them.
I also have a set of what were brand new 406 casting heads with stainless steel valves and poly locks, but they wont fit a 305 block.
I also have a nice 350CI factory forged steel crank, all ready to go balanced for 1700-1800 grams rotating assembly.

I build a full roller motor, (converted a Gen-1 block using all factory parts with V-6 lifters) for my Elco 357CI with fuel injection and a 700R4.
PM me your phone number, and I will talk your ear off!


Thanks,
Davehttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1317394461.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1317394491.jpg

man after the sheer # of small blocks and big blocks i have dealt with over the decades.................


i would poo can the 305 period. take it apart and amuse yerself.............thats it. then sell it.



buy a 385 fastburn crate. why? cuz 400's ALWAYS RUN HOT! unless you go down the oil cooler /big azz alum radiator road.


385 crate is damn near complete.


or do a ZZ4 350 turn key.


either way ya get a hell of alot of bang fer buck and a warranty to boot.



presently owning a 383 stroker which runs hot enough to go down the alum rad and oil cooler road i kind of (?) know something about them. when it pukes itself i will do a 385 fastburn. add the zoomy cam and have something like 420HP to scare the beejeebers out of us. this is already hooked to a hughs rv/offroad 400 tranny which we have been UNABLE TO KILL IN BAJA in the score legal class 8 truck it sits in.


also presently owning a big block 454, when it pukes i will get a 502 crate and it will be a great tow motor hooked to a hughs RV/offroad tranny.



its yer choice. but understand its DAMN HOT HERE in az. and when ya punch a 350 out, its just gonna run hot period. same with the 400. thats etched in granite.


our next up-ge-fix-in for the score class 8 truck is adding a pair of electric fans to the radiator.

I would ECHO the dump the 305 crowd.

I'll give you a fresh idea. In late model Silverados and their ilk there is a 6.0 ALLOY blocked engine that might actually give you BETTER gas milage. and 335 hp and 350 ish foot pounds of torque while weighing 60# less weight.

Wrecking yards in So Cal are selling them for around 1,200 to 1,600

with a 6 liter he will need the puter harness. with the zz4 and the 385 fast burn(carbed) it will basically (if he has enuff beer and pizza) a 48 hr job yanking pos 305 out and stabbing either zz4 or 385 fastburn in.


i would fer sure stab some poly razz ma tazz motor mounts in and tranny mts and ditch the oem pos mounts.


any way he goes, he needs to fer sure refurb or buy a new radiator and make damn sure temp gauge/oil pressure gauges work.


i can promise(ask me how i know) that a 383 stroker with a double pumper 800 holly will scare the living poo out of them!


we actually DETUNED ours and yanked the 800 holly off in favor of a new edelbrock 600. better mileage,easier, and none of the yuckky issues of a holly carb. and it still scares the poo out of us when we hammer it off road or even on the street. i can CHIRP the BFG MUD TERRAINS in ANY GEAR on the hughs 400 tranny and its has never whimpered. now the U-joints are a whole nuther enchilada keeping those happy under that kind of freeking abuse.



but this is a el cam-in-o which will see no offroad use.

Chevy engine rebuild question
 

Whatever happens it will never have a carb. This is my daily driver. I don't want or need more than 225 hp. I don't want a tire burning go fast monster. I am OK with my current HP virtually everything will have more power than I currently have.

well hell just get a 5.3 on the crate, scam the harness and puter out of a junker and come out of the stone age(carbs) and enter the injected world.


hell my last 5.3 went 286K before oil pump started getting tired. it never puked, but it was gonna be a tear down so we decided against it...................and BOUGHT A 2011 .


when i was looking at crate 5.3 chebbie was running a special remanned for like $1700 bucks long block complete.


you will have more power and you will gain some mileage.


the only PITA to going injected is getting/doing the harness and puter.


do a 2.5" dual exhaust and yer good to go.



or find a junker rear ender at the junk yard out of a K-1500 truck and you will have all the parts ya need.



this will be cheaper than zz4 or 385 fastburn.

Odd Job, I converted it to fuel injection years ago. The engine is the only thing I will replace. The transmission and rear end are fine. One of the many reasons I don't want a tire smoking mega HP engine is the 8 inch rear end would puke. I don't even want to think about trying to fit a stout rear end back there. A new rear end is very expensive and flat out not needed with a moderate daily driver engine. The Grand Am limited slip rear ends are scarce and very spendy. A Ford rear is just a pain to adapt and also spendy.

Yeah, no stroker, no big engine, it would be fun, but a hassle especially considering gas prices. It's good that you've got the machine shop buddy to help. You may want to find a junkyard 350 and rebuild that if you don't want to go with the crate motor. Or, check into the HO 305 motors. I had a buddy that had an '87 Trans Am with a fuel injected 305. It was plenty fast (I think around 200-220hp). So it's possible, and since 305s are relatively undesirable, you may be able to find the parts you need cheaply. They did make a ton of them there for a while. (Who knows why, blech! ;) ) I would try to find some better heads unless you find out that for some reason your car came with them.

Good luck and keep this thread updated. I'm curious to hear how it goes. I'd sort of like to do some V-8 work again, but don't have the time, money, space...

He's old, them old guys are often hard of hearing. ;)

:D