Standard of living before the great depression?

[tonypeoni]

With great interest I always look to the past. My 97 year old grandmother has seen a lot. She seems convinced that the old times were better than today. Living standards that is. Her father was a wealthy man by standards of that day. He imported produce until the 1930s. Like most he lost about everything. But he did own property, a large home complete with a nanny. It seems unimaginable that my grandmother could have been brought up with such lavish standards. So today she asks me about work and if Im happy. I tell her everything is fine. Then I ask grandma about the other grand kids. She seldom has anything positive in the way of news. So finally I asked her pointblank.. Grandma what do you think about times today?? She laughs. She says "Tony boy you shouldn't worry about things you cant change". I ask grandma how are things different besides T.V. and the automobile from when she was a kid?? She thinks and says "well the idea of 30 year mortgage was not imaginable in those times, also so many people having nothing but credit card debt too". I got to thinking she's right. So many people today own NOTHING. They live paycheck to paycheck. They own absolutely nothing. When I was a kid if you ask me what poor was I would have told you farmers are poor. But even farmers are landowners.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by tonypeoni

But even farmers are landowners.

Not all farmers were land owners. Aside from the sharecropper system initiated during reconstruction, the post WW I farm depression bankrupted many white farmers and turned them into tenant farmers on what had been their land. By 1935 less than half of the people who earned their living on the land owned the land. The New Deal helped land owning farmers get richer and sealed the fate of tenant farmers. The Grapes of Wrath was more than a novel, much of it was history.

[tonypeoni]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Not all farmers were land owners. Aside from the sharecropper system initiated during reconstruction, the post WW I farm depression bankrupted many white farmers and turned them into tenant farmers on what had been their land. By 1935 less than half of the people who earned their living on the land owned the land. The New Deal helped land owning farmers get richer and sealed the fate of tenant farmers. The Grapes of Wrath was more than a novel, much of it was history.

I pay attention to local real estate and it seems that every 300+ acre farm that comes up for sale has a price tag north of 1 million. No matter how bad of shape the house or buildings on it are.

[dan88911]

Didn't this credit card idea being in the late 50s or early 60s.
If so you have generations of folks brainwashed so to speak who think that's
how you get stuff.

[Embraer]

Originally Posted by tonypeoni

I pay attention to local real estate and it seems that every 300+ acre farm that comes up for sale has a price tag north of 1 million. No matter how bad of shape the house or buildings on it are.

did you ever see the 4 pages of replies that people left you on your last thread?

[CHICKS]

Blame WWII. All those guys coming back from the war with money. "World War II dramatically changed the mortgage scene. War veterans were coming home and entering the workforce. They became avid consumers who wanted to buy – the economy boomed. And with it, so did the demand for mortgages." Quoted from : The History of Home Mortgages

[jyl]

Our image of the 1920s is largely formed by movies and popular historical accounts. Poor people are not, typically, the topics of either. There was desperate poverty then. The urban slums were real cesspools, some rural conditions rivaled feudal times, and then there was the lives of Negroes and other minorities . . . It wasn't all an F. Scott Fitzgerald world.

[tonypeoni]

Originally Posted by Embraer

did you ever see the 4 pages of replies that people left you on your last thread?

I dont want this to be lumped in with the "American dream bs". The American dream was DOA by the time most people in my generation had school loans paid off ect. This thread is about the impending death of the American middle class. Do not confuse the two!

[tonypeoni]

Originally Posted by jyl

Our image of the 1920s is largely formed by movies and popular historical accounts. Poor people are not, typically, the topics of either. There was desperate poverty then. The urban slums were real cesspools, some rural conditions rivaled feudal times, and then there was the lives of Negroes and other minorities . . . It wasn't all an F. Scott Fitzgerald world.

"some rural conditions rivaled feudal times"

This is the case in a lot of small towns in the Midwest right now.

[Embraer]

no, im just pointing out that you asked a question in another thread, lots of people put thoughtful replies down, and even asked you for more information. you didn't reply once in that thead.

[tonypeoni]

Originally Posted by Embraer

no, im just pointing out that you asked a question in another thread, lots of people put thoughtful replies down, and even asked you for more information. you didn't reply once in that thead.

I am simply trying to get people to think. We are all told that things have never been better. Unfortunately its mostly lies. Well propaganda. Since 1920 the American standard of living has steadily went down. Houses got smaller cars got smaller. Heck the only thing that got bigger was the American work week. The one bright spot was the health care system which up until 10 years ago was a pretty good system. Now even its a mess.

[Embraer]

1st...im just pointing out that it was rude to start a thread, ask for help, and then not reply.

2nd.... the standard of living has not gone down. think of every single thing you take for granted today. running water, electricity, your car, television, (heck, radio for that matter)...even sliced bread. not everybody had a romantic life of living in huge victorian houses. lots of people didn't have those "necessities" that we need today.

I own a large, historic home in Butler-Tarkington. Whoever lived in my place in 1908 when it was built was obviously not a middle class person.

to compare the rural midwest to feudal times, is laughable. i'm from a rural town in Indiana with a population of 1800. it's a mostly agricultural town. ...and although people don't drive porsches and ferraris around there, they have a good quality of life. nice houses, food, clean water, electricty, etc. 90 years ago? ...not so much.

[Embraer]

tooth-ache 90 years ago? huff some ether, and have it yanked out with pliers. that's quality of life for ya.

[jyl]

I think you should show the data to support that claim. It sounds like rose colored glasses.

Just to pick on one of your statements, you say "houses got smaller". Really? How big was the average person's living quarters in 1920? Your then-wealthy grandmother may have lived in a big house, and the 1920s houses that survive today are often the larger and nicer ones.

But what about all the people living in shotgun shacks, urban tenements, apartments with Murphy beds, boarding houses, poor families crowded many to a room?

Even if you just consider single family houses, we know that new house construction only got larger from 1970 to the recent past. http://www.census.gov/const/C25Ann/sftotalmedavgsqft.pdf

And here in Portland, there are 1920s neighborhoods which survive mostly untouched. In the workingman neighborhoods, the houses are small bungalows of 1200-1400 sq ft - very cute and charming, but not "large".

My neighborhood dates from that era, it was one of the "luxury" developments at the time - not a "working neighborhood" by any means - and even here the typical house is 2000 sq ft of original living space (before attics and basements were built out in recent years). That's a small house compared to the luxury residential developments of today.

[tonypeoni]

I understand what your saying. This is not a thread about land or house ownership. This is a thread about the upward prosperity its takes for someone to obtain in order to own a house or land.

[Embraer]

i think the upward prosperity still exists...just not in a traditional sense of "if i work in a trade for a long time, i will do well."

it still takes persistance, through a different knowledge base. People are still becoming wealthy. entrepreneurs still exist.

the problem today isn't that opportunities don't exist...it's just that most people are too lazy, or lack the knowledge or skills.

[jyl]

I really recomnend that you go look for the data. It takes very little time today with the Internet.

Here is home ownership rate 1900 to 2000.

Historical Census of Housing Tables - Homeownership

46% in 1900, dipped a little in the Depression, then rose steadily to 2000, and it is higher yet now.

Homeownership in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not trying to jump on your post or your sentiments. I just think that it is generally better to be happy, sad, angry, proud, frustrated, etc about the real situation. Not about something that is not actually true.

[tonypeoni]

Simple facts here.
1 Private and government debt out of control
2 Wages are stagnant while cost of living continues to skyrocket.
3 Stock market continues to struggle to return anything higher than inflation.

Simple facts

[tonypeoni]

Originally Posted by jyl

I really recomnend that you go look for the data. It takes very little time today with the Internet.

Here is home ownership rate 1900 to 2000.

Historical Census of Housing Tables - Homeownership

46% in 1900, dipped a little in the Depression, then rose steadily to 2000, and it is higher yet now.

Homeownership in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not trying to jump on your post or your sentiments. I just think that it is generally better to be happy, sad, angry, proud, frustrated, etc about the real situation. Not about something that is not actually true.

"A single family home valued at roughly $550,000 in Salinas, California."

Ok.. that says it all. 1/2 million and I get all 1700 SQ FT of that! Hows that working for the "Average working class Californian family"?


Salinas employment information
Index Salinas California National
Income per capita $18,264 $29,999 $26,505
Median household income $55,087 $64,052 $54,595
Median household income owner occupied $72,324 $75,630 $63,664
Median household income renter occupied $40,931 $44,245 $35,685
Median earnings male $25,151 $41,787 $38,921
Median earnings female $19,332 $24,729 $23,115
Unemployment rate (2000) 12.0% 4.9% 4.0%
Unemployment rate (2010) 10.8% 12.3% 9.5%
Unemployment rate (2012) 14.9% 11.1% 8.3%
Poverty level 16.7% 13.5% 12.

[tonypeoni]

The last thing Ill say here is.. It comes down to the old adage, When your neighbor loses his job it's a Recession and when you lose yours it's a DEPRESSION. We on the pelican parts forum are not the majority of the tax base. We are the upper middle to elite. Things are worse than some on this bb realize.