Should Open Wheel Cars Race on Oval Tracks?

[edgemar]

After watching the accident it seems like open wheel cars on a oval track are much more dangerous than a car with fenders such as a Nascar. Am I wrong....? Why not just keep open wheel cars on road courses?

[Zeke]

Keep them on road courses? They've been open at Indy for 100 years. What you're proposing is to eliminate ovals. I don't think that is going to happen.

IIRC the last 2 Indy type car deaths before Wheldon were going left and right.

[pwd72s]

Well, if total safety is the goal, why no simply ban racing? Oh, and because of 40,000 higway deaths per year, let's ban the automobile altogether? Of course, only the police & military should be allowed firearms....

The government hasn't gone far enough in protecting us from ourselves.

[sammyg2]

banning anything is usually not the smart way top go and usually points toward knee-jerk.

Here the deal with indy cars. They're underpowered (by design) so to makem g ofast they do everythnig they can to reduce drag. Which means the same as reduce downforce. they retain JUST BARELY ENOUGH down-force to keep em off the wall under perfect conditions.

Wanna makem safer?
Give em back some power and mandate a higher minimum of downforce.
Let em go 900 hp but makem carry huge wings at sharp angles to slow them down.

But they won't do that because it would interfere with their constant 220 mph nose-to-tail trains they pull.
As if that would actually be a bad thing?

[Zeke]

So much has been said and done to put on a "show" for the fans.

Well, that's the crux of the problem right there.

Sam's probably right. But if he really had the answer, he'd most likely not be working where he is. He'd be working where Randy Bernard is.

You know, if Roger Penske and Chip Gannasi weren't so hell bent on winning, between the two they could probably fix anything.

[livi]

A modern form of gladiator horse racing.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Here the deal with indy cars. They're underpowered (by design) so to makem g ofast they do everythnig they can to reduce drag. Which means the same as reduce downforce. they retain JUST BARELY ENOUGH down-force to keep em off the wall under perfect conditions.

and... that's exactly the opposite of what the real problem is...

They make so much downforce that they can run flat out on certain types of ovals. You'll notice that the ovals they used to run, like Milwaukee, have been replaced by ovals created for Nascar. A mile track, that required braking into the turns, maybe even a downshift, has been replaced by tracks that they can take flat in top gear all th way around. Drafting packs develop, the drivers run 3 wide into the turns, bad things happen.

They should have never raced at Las Vegas. The drivers knew going into the race it wasn't going to work. The insiders that watched practice knew bad things were likely to happen. Sadly, their worst fears were realized.

JR

[Nine9six]

RIP Dan Wheldon!
My prayers for your children, wife, and family.

[HelmetHead]

Originally Posted by nine9six

rip dan wheldon!
my prayers for your children, wife, and family.

+1000

[widgeon13]

I hate seeing anyone die but this form of racing has been going on for over a century and yes, people get killed but you are not going to change this w/o doing away with a lot of other risky behavior in the world.

RIP Dan Wheldon

[s_morrison57]

I perfer road course over the ovals but I think that 34 cars on 1.5 miles is too many, there should be a limit but saying that I doubt it would have made a difference, the racer in all of us is hurting now.
RIP DW

[edgemar]

would cars with enclosed cockpits make any difference?

[teenerted1]

Originally Posted by edgemar

After watching the accident it seems like open wheel cars on a oval track are much more dangerous than a car with fenders such as a Nascar. Am I wrong....? Why not just keep open wheel cars on road courses?

you do know that what you are saying? are you saying that all oval open wheel racing shoulld be eliminated; outlaws, sprints, midgets, modified, go-cart, IRL pavement and dirt? in a word NO....but they should ban some tracks from open wheel racing.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by livi

A modern form of gladiator horse racing.

Eh, the Europeans have been at it for a long time. They just don't use oval tracks.

[dhrcr911s]

RIP Dan Wheldon. A great IRL and Indy 500 champ. I would have loved to see him work in a ChampCar after watching him in Indy Lights.

I was lucky enough to spend 5 years working at the ChampCar events in the late ninties, early 2000's. That includes the 1999 finale at Fontana. I was there, saw the wreck and heard the ChampCar safety team call in their initial observations of Greg Moore in the aftermath of his single car accident. One of the worst days I can remember associated with a sport I love. Yesterday was just as bad.

Anyone remember ChampCar's weekend at Texas?? Cars were too fast, too many of them, too short of a track. Race didn't happen. ChampCar made the only (right) call that day. My perception of LVMS is that it is very similar to TMS. No margin for error, very little time to rest. Just my 2 cents.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Champ Car (RIP) had the right idea. Watching the IRL cars go fast and turn left all day is pretty boring, honestly.

The CC chassis was touted as being far safer than the "crapwagon" cars as well - it might've saved Mr. Wheldon. Who knows. RIP.

[iplagolf]

I'm glad this post came up. Very sad of the passing of Mr. Wheldon. I started going to Indy in the early 60's with my dad and my uncles. I believe it was race day 1964, very early in the race, Eddy Sachs and Dave McDonald were in a wreck coming out of the fourth turn. At that time fuel cell bladders were not in use and the cars carried at least a 100 gallons of fuel. I can't remember whose fuel tank was ruptured but both drivers were burned to death in the wreck. The race was stopped for over an hour. Eddy Sachs was a hugely popular local driver and Dave McDonald was a rookie. The safety crews cleaned up the debris, and the race was re-started. No five lap tribute and everyone went home. Everyone who races knows the risk. These people are professionals. Death can be, and is a part of the sport. My question, why didn't they re-start the race? Was it we (INDY) were hard hearted bast@#ds then and we're (INDY) is more PC now? Are they going to give a refund for tickets to the few that were in attendance, or lambaste the poor attendee who asks for their money back. I'm going to offer an answer for my question, but would like your input. I think they were too afraid it could happen again and having two dead drivers in one day or more would sink their failing ship. The straight-a-ways at Vegas are banked at 7 degrees, the same as the turns at Indy, and the turns at Vegas 20-22 degrees. Running these clone cars in large groups is a blue print for disaster. NASCAR has it too. Ideas?

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by javadog

and... that's exactly the opposite of what the real problem is...

They make so much downforce that they can run flat out on certain types of ovals. You'll notice that the ovals they used to run, like Milwaukee, have been replaced by ovals created for Nascar. A mile track, that required braking into the turns, maybe even a downshift, has been replaced by tracks that they can take flat in top gear all th way around. Drafting packs develop, the drivers run 3 wide into the turns, bad things happen.

They should have never raced at Las Vegas. The drivers knew going into the race it wasn't going to work. The insiders that watched practice knew bad things were likely to happen. Sadly, their worst fears were realized.

JR

LOL really? I see your point but maybe you missed mine.

BTW, why were there 34 cars on that grid? Anyone? Anyone?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[iplagolf]

The CEO of Indy, at the first of the year, put up a 5 million dollar incentive for a non -regular (no full time ride) driver to get in the final race starting from the back. If they won they got 2.5 mil and a fan got 2.5 mil. No one came forward and it was deemed just before the race, Mr. Wheldon qualified for the chance. Wouldn't do to have the winner of the biggest race (INDY) not in the field.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

LOL really? I see your point but maybe you missed mine.

Nah, got your point. Also wanted to correct a few misconceptions in your post. And, responding to the point of this whole thread, I indicated that it was the nature of this particular track that was the problem. Not all oval tracks, not the cars fault, etc... The fact is, while these cars could be safer, there are tracks where this type of wreck won't be seen.

The US is full of tracks that have a less-than-perfect fit with the cars and motorcycles that race there. Many sanctioning bodies schedule races at tracks that are inherently unsuited to the vehicles in question. I think this sometimes is because of a lack of suitable alternatives. In other cases, marketing decisions take priority.

JR