I never thought a gun would save my life more than my wits and situational awareness. It's just another tool. The one time I really needed it and didn't have it (in NJ), I was able to get away. But that thug will surely do the same thing to others because I couldn't stop him and the cops didn't care.

I have take the MSF's basic course, but that's it so far. Even working from home, I ride about 1000 miles a month. So I think I get plenty of practice. But it is on my list to get in an advanced class once my travel slows down. I know riding is dangrous and I'm about as safety conscious as it gets. I'm even waiting until the sun comes up today to start my 450 mile ride back home.:cool:

sold my leica. met fully unarmed at a local starbucks. sat with my back against the wall, next to a bunch of angry veterans getting all amped up on double lattes talking PARF stuff. i actually heard one call another "gunny".

Irony Alert! the buyer was a female cop. she was ARMED!! hahhaha..i would have been dead meat. (begin green font) i did feel slightly safe. my serpa holster arrived yesterday, so had a place to hold a gun. better than nothing.(end green font)

Not saying that I do not agree but you are a cop and know the stats. If someone is less than 25 feet away and has a knife and wants to kill you, its touch and go on if the person with the gun or knife will walk away.

In the above scenerio once it appears that "money is not enough" and they are intent on hurting me one way or the other, the knife that is always clipped to my LH pocket will be coming out. Agree with you about using every tool at your disposal and in this case that would happen. Its you or them...

I've met hundreds of people via Craigslist as both buyer and seller. I've regularly carried thousands in hundred dollar bills, either before or after the transaction as buyer or seller.

Maybe living in the Midwest changes my perspective as I would never worry about 99.999% of the people here. In California or New York, maybe it's 99.99% of the people.

Still, the tinfoil wussies among us would point out that's 10 TIMES MORE LIKELY and go on to have a lengthy arguement about what ammo would render a 'perp' incapacitated the fastest, and which holster allows the fastest draw

Agreements
 

From reading this it appears to me both sides agree that situational awareness and preparedness are key in self/family protection. Some people will choose to arm themselves with additional tools, some will choose they do not desire the responsibility. Both choices are generally good ones. I make the same choices daily.

I grew up in Houston and worked in the Fifth Ward, I know what trouble looks like and how quickly it can erupt. I make the choices appropriate for myself and my family. I also arm myself with a phone so I can call to assist someone else when necessary. It is a tool.

When around the farm I am very armed of course the large cat rescue nearby loses large cats every so often and I have seen some on my place. Doubt LE is going to be able to respond to a location 1/2 mile from any road before kitty has lunch.



Stuart,

I love statistics, especially how they lie to us and make us feel glad. I am too lazy to look up the country in which you reside. I will make the assumption your country is smaller than The US. I will play a little game using your numbers:

30,000 gun deaths per year in a population estimated at 312,536,559 is .0095988....% of the population per year.

It is estimated roughly 47% of the US population lives with guns in their homes (legal and illegal)

So about 140,000,000 people live around guns. Switzerland has a higher rate of gun ownership and a lower rate of deaths per year.

US gun deaths per year include police involved shootings and suicides. Swiss statistics do not include these.

Switzerland maintains a more closed border than does the US though I doubt this is of a huge effect on the deaths, maybe 1 or 2 thousand out of 30???? This is just me making vague assumptions.

Now, what is gun ownership (legal and illegal) in your country? Do NOT say it does not exist because it most definately DOES. I also doubt gun violence statistics in your country include police involved shootings or suicides.

David,

The person you are asking about lives in a country where its more or less illegal to own guns. They say you can apply for a permit but my friends there have told me that unless you are a cop, a rancher with a vermin problem or shooting organization, you likely will not get it approved.

Im delighted to be on your banned list Joe, you are a blowhard.

But in regard to your point- if only Rick and his gun had been at Ft Hood in Nov 09 when he no doubt could prevented a madman killing people on an army base full of highly trained, situationally aware, professional men at arms.

Excellent point! Stu, they were also un-armed. They were not allowed to carry firearms on base at Ft Hood.

The only people allowed to carry weapons on most military bases are the MP's. When I had a weapon on Camp Pendleton, I was at the range in a very controlled environment. Many people think that everyone in the military carries weapons with them on base and it's simply not true... Nobody at Ft Hood had a weapon with them except the MP's and they always arrive too late...

Thank you gentleman, Im aware that most soldiers on the Ft Hood base were not armed and that just because its an army base, people dont neccesarily go about around armed. However, I imagine there is armed security, MPs and such at a miliary base. My point was that an army base is where one might expect to find a population trained to avoid getting shot, one which is highly disciplined, better able to assess and react to a situation than the general population- and yet one loon still managed kill a dozen soldiers.

Im not actually anti gun. But Ricks line "if Im carrrying a weapon in public its doesnt affect anybody else....." is silly. Ofcourse it does.

Stuart,

Yes, carrying a spoon or not carrying a spoon in public affects everyone. One factor in the drop in violent crime in The US has been the introduction of concealed carry laws. The fact your target might be armed and able to defend themselves with deadly force has caused a marked decrease in violent crime. And no matter the country in which you reside there is violent crime. Some countries do not even report the level of crime or else they underreport for purpose.

I do not like the idea of everyone carrying a weapon any more than you do. I do not mind a cleared populace with no malice on their mind having the ability to carry a spoon. Believe me, on a lonely backroad an hour from any town with zero pay phones having a spoon can help ease your mind. It has saved myself and my family.

On Fort Hood, like most remote locations (it is a BIG installation) or large cities, there is a response lag time. Trained personnel might not be as attuned to their surroundings in a familiar setting. This happens in all types of combat situations. A similarly well trained perp can easily cause death and destruction. This same type of event happens every day somewhere in this world, you do not even have to include the Middle East. Even nice, calm Norway recently found itself in the spotlight when a well trained person went on a killing rampage. It took much time for police to respond. Calling forth the Fort Hood tragedy is not a good example to your point.

The point I believe you are missing is situational awareness. Some people falsly believe they do not face danger because of where and/or how they live. The mere fact humans covet items and are a violent creature at heart trumps the belief of safety and security being a guarantee. Sometimes one cannot depend upon others to protect their families lives.

Again, we all have choices. It does not bother me you are unarmed, it should not bother you if I am. I doubt either of us would seek out to harm. Same can be said for most people on this board.

Well, if you can't carry a gun in CA, you can use a baseball bat to kill a random stranger instead. I've been to this Wal-Mart before too, right next to one of my clients.

Elderly Man Allegedly Beaten To Death At Lakewood Walmart « CBS Los Angeles

There is only one admitted gun owner on this board that seems more than a bit unstable....

http://www.americanrifleman.org/blogs/the-armed-citizen-november-16-2011/

The Armed Citizen Extra

(The following account did not appear in the print version of American Rifleman.)
After placing an ad on Craigslist to sell his iPhone and getting an offer, a Tacoma, Wa., man went to meet the potential buyers near a local mall. But the so-called buyers—two teenage boys—had another plan. As the owner was showing the teens the phone, one of them grabbed it and the other shoved the man to the ground and then took off running. Grabbing his gun that he is licensed to carry, the man demanded that the boys stop. He held them at gunpoint until police arrived. (The News Tribune, Tacoma, WA, 07/03/10)



Oh, yeah, i'm a European who's subscribed to the NRA's facebook page...
I think it's time to get really worried. Eurotrash with a gun. hjeheheheh.

If I were you I'd carry. Cheap deterrence.

N!

Same here, though I do avoid putting myself in situations that give me a bad vibe when buying/selling things. Using your brain goes a long way towards avoiding situations that would require using your gun. I frequently purchase cars in situations that wouldn't be practical to carry, such as flying to a different state to drive a vehicle home.

I'm actually totally supportive of concealed carry, it was one of the motivators for the purchase of my Sig P250 compact. Now I just need to get off of my ass and dedicate a Saturday to completing the class.

Just last week I met a woman in her apartment complex parking lot to purchase a mountain bike. While I wasn't carrying, I did have a Spectre Gunship circling overhead in case things went South...

Just one gunship?? And where was your ground support to paint the target.

Another poorly prepared schmuck ripe for victimization :D

I am not against cc laws but I'd love to see your data supporting this claim. It's complete BS. I studied criminology and statistics related to same in college and can tell you that it's a complex field. In fact it is hard to prove that any deterrence affects violent crime rates, including harsh punishment, etc.. There are several easily statistically proven reasons why violent crime has plummeted in the U.S. over the last 20 years and cc laws ain't one of them. Sorry. :cool: