Why stop at 100LL, Norm, when there's nitro?:)
Man, these are some seriously funny posts.

BTW, the exact same symptoms happened in my 1989 VW Golf.
After going around and around in circles and throwing a few sensors and a pump at it, it just quit in the middle of an intersection while driving.
The cause?
Freakin' $60 Bosche fuel pump relay overheating. That was it.

Hey Normy,

Aviation IS really a small world and you are really well known.

You are not the only one who knows some Feds. I even know a few checkairmen at FedEx but you know, I do not pull this type of chit on people. Not to worry, bet that someone else will just because of the stand up kind of guy you are!

maybe stomping on a dead horse here.....but..... :
If you knew ONE thing about Porsche 928's, then you'de know that your 928S2 is either a Right hand drive car from the UK market, or not a 928S2 at all

You do realize that the S2, officially was a UK only name for the UK market 928S? And even then Porsche did no use that designation anywhere.. There are no decals for it..

It's not entirely clear from your signature, you say 85 928S2
But , i doubt you sit on the right side of your car when driving.. do you?

Does the model bade in the rear actually say "928S2" ? Did it come with that badge from the factory?

So what car do you actually drive?


Year Model Disp. Power Notes
1978-1982 928 4.5l 219 hp Electronic fuel injection debuts in 1980.
1980-1982 "Euro S" 4.7l 300 hp 928 S becomes available in Europe only with a 300 hp 4.7l engine. U.S. receives Competition Package in 1981 w/ S spoilers but not the motor.
1983-1984 928 S 4.7l 234/310 hp U.S./Euro spec.
1985-1986 928 S 5.0l 288 hp New DOHC U.S. motor with 4 valves per cylinder. Euro S continues with 310 hp SOHC 4.7l motor.
1987-1991 928 S4 5.0l 316 hp First of the new body style. "S4 brakes": 11.97" brake rotors w/ 4-piston calipers introduced on late '86 models. Difficult to adjust dual-disc clutch replaced with single disc unit.
1989-1991 928 GT 5.0l 326 hp Computer-controlled limited slip differential derived from technology pioneered on the 959. 5-speed only. Tightest 928 suspension.
1992-1995 928 GTS 5.4l 345 hp 1992 only available in Europe after mid-year. "GTS brakes": 12.68" rotors with still larger 4-piston calipers.

Hmm, no S2 in that list..

Let's try another one

Model 1984 USA
VIN Start: WPOAAO92xES860001 VIN End: WPOAAO92xES863067
Type: 928S
Engine: 4664cc 242hp 16valve
Engine Code: M28/21 (5 speed manual) / M28/22 (4 speed auto)
Injection: L-Jetronic
Model 1985 EURO
VIN Start: WPOZZZ92ZFS8n0001 VIN End: WPOZZZ92ZFS8nnnnn
Type: 928S2
Engine: 4664cc 310hp 16valve Twin Distributor
Engine Code: M28/21 (5 speed manual) / M28/22 (3 speed auto)
Injection: LH-Jetronic

No S2 either when i look in PET
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1320574737.gif

Didn't they unofficially call the 5.0 32 valve 928 an S3 instead of S2?

It's not that clear in your sig Norm, which one is yours, an 84 model year born in early 85.
Or an 85 model year born in late 85? ROW or US model

Very difficult , those little details, especially if people start labeling their car with a model designation that officially did not even exist for LHD cars..and even that wasn't so official.

So, not to be funny or anything, but you might wanna put some more info in your signature before you can tell folks off when they are unclear about your car having an O2 sensor or not,
at least if you want to tell them off based on the "It says so in my signature" argument.

Especially so because there actually WAS a 928 with 02 sensor in just about every model year during the 80'ies and your sig does not mention having a CAT or not, or an O2 or not.
Your sig doesn't even tell if it's a Euro 4.7 or the weaker 4.7/5.0 US car.
Quite frankly, the only thing your sig seems to tell, is that your car is no longer stock..Which means it's not about "Porsche" knowledge anymore.
Just that it's a modded car and it could have all sorts of non standard features that have nothing to do with how Porsche actually built it.


Might wanna add the engine code to your sig now.. that'll make it a whole lot more obvious for those with or without "Porsche" knowledge.

Maybe it's back pressure causing the problem N!-

Chop the exhaust off with your sawzall. That'll fix it.

rjp! :cool:

E10 is the only gas available in NY, and I have run all my cars on it for years with no ill effects.

That includes the 85 928. I too would look for different cause for your running problems.

Sure like my Mustang...yessir! The bullitt model has a "tune" from the factory that allows it to run well on ANY grade of gasahol, regular to premium...sensors adjust engine settings for the fuel. It states in the owner's manual that only the Bullitt models (not the GT's) will enjoy a power gain on premium.

So, a farm Co-op near me sells 92 octane no alcohol no lead premium. Mustang runs really well on it, but my biggest gain with this stuff has been with my small engine equipment. Especially my chain saw...it didn't like a gasahol/oil mix at all!

For all interested, I added a phone number and fax number to the info to my earlier post on where I
bought the vial used to test gasoline for alcohol. Small aircraft pilots fear alcohol for good reason. I'll let the pilots here explain that...

You hang in there Normy...I like you for the same reason Jimmy Carter loves Obama...;)

this is good.

Norm,

You sure that aux fan is adequate and pulling air over the entire engine like the main fan did? What you have doing primary duty is an aux. or auxillary fan. Typically from a system perspective, the function of auxillary differs from primary. Even when the fans are identical, their placement can dictate what and what they cannot do.

Fuel boiling at the rails on start-up seems unlikely. At that point everything is "cold". Fuel boiling when running could be due to not enough circulation? Hence maybe your pump is approaching the end of life or there is some sort of issue with the pressure regulator(s)?

I presume you've got some sort of euro 928, hence no Ox and no cat? So the negative impact on av-gas would be minimal? What about the fuel injectors? Any possibility of av-gas blend causing problems there? (I have no clue but it did come to mind for some reason.)

Ethanol is known to attack seals of earlier cars. You may want to give everything a good look over. Maybe there's a seal for something or other in either the pressure regulator(s) or the fuel pumps for which the ethanol (over time) has essentially rendered non functional ?

Does the 928 have an idler valve like the 911's? If so has it been verified that it is functional? I have to presume it is because your description indicates a start-up problem, hence if it is the idler valve, you would still stall if idle, engine warm.

You should not be having combustion/starting issues for an ethanol blend which is fresh and under driving conditions. This is also true for mowers, chain-saws, and vibrators. I run using FL gas. Though I am in Orlando and not FT Lauderdale. No issues thus far. Though I do so with 911's and not a 928.

Which brings me to..... the following which you may want to additionally consider, or not consider:

- For the station where you regularly filled up, how often was/were the deliveries for the premium (I presume your were filling up with premium)? What I am getting at here is, maybe premium is no longer selling too well at your station and hence has been sitting for a while? Ethanol is a great absorber of moisture, hence if their tanks are regularly replenished, you can be certain there is going to be more water in the gas.

- Is there any potential that there is some sort of ingress point for water/run-off to enter into the station's tank? For example old tank(s), or even inadequate water/run-off drainage for the tank area. We have been experiencing some good rainfall here recently. I could see water getting into those tanks if the station owner cut corners with their fuel station.

- Is there any potential that someone is stealing the gas (at the station) and replacing it with water?

- Have you or perhaps someone you know used the same gas from the same station from the same grade? Did they have problems?

- Your profession is aviation, hence I presume you leave the 928 for longer, ish periods of time? Is there any possibility with the 928's age, that this is correlated?

- Have you posted on the 928 forum the problem? Perhaps another 928'er had a similar/identical problem, identified it, and solved it.

I hope you are able to identify the root cause and solve this problem. 928's are becoming rare and I'd hate to see one less on the road. They're absolutely beautiful. I wish I could find a white one down here in FL which was well maintained and cared for. So far no dice. But I did recently pick up a nice 964.

First of all, you are correct. I am indeed calling my Austrian model [country code C11] an "S2". S2's were twin distributor 2-valve 928S models from years 1984, 1985, and 1986 that were marketed in the United Kingdom. And you are also correct in that they were only marketed that way by Porsche in the United Kingdom. That indeed, makes my car a 928S, instead of a 928S2.

My VIN: WP0ZZZ92ZFS841526.

Go ahead and decode it.

-I like to use the UK model name because there isn't any other name for the twin-distributor 2 valve '84-'86's. Back in 2002, I started using that name for my car on Rennlist, and it has kind of caught on. Most people these days know that the term "S2" is the number of the beast, and also know what it means. The only difference between a UK S2 and an Austrian S2 is the drive side. Everything else is the same.

NOW; As to your character assassination....let's talk about your post:

* I'm puzzled about your attack. And YES it was an attack. I held you folks at Brussels Center in high regard; perhaps I was WRONG.

* There is no term "you'de" in the English language. You are wrong.

* John Speake, who is famous for rebuilding MAF's , has the designation "928S2" on the back of his personal car. YES there is a PORSCHE sticker that says 928S2, with the "S2" in open letters. Here's a reference for a picture of this sticker: "The Essential Buyers Guide Porsche 928" by David Hemmings. If you look at the bottom of page 12 there is a clear picture of the Porsche 928S2 sticker. Once again, you are wrong.

* Porsche NEVER called any 928 an "S3". This is an enthusiast designation, designed to designate the early 32 valve cars. Again....WRONG!

* My engine code is M28-21, with the engine serial number 82F00516.

Some more details of the code sticker in my trunk [and the matching one in my original, German language owners manual:

928 920

M2821-82F G2810-11F

L700 99

C11 S

Now that we've established that you are lacking in knowledge and cannot spell, since YOU obviously have such a MONSTROUS knowledge of Porsche cars and their mechanicals, why don't YOU go ahead and tell my why I am getting vapor lock on hot days. Come on Porsche expert...talk to me! PLEASE don't clear any conflicting traffic to the same flight level while you are doing it-

N!

PS: By the way, REAL Belgans Frans spreken-

He knows not to put LEADED GAS in his Porsche. We're both one up on you.

LOL

rjp!

Now we are getting somewhere.

* The Aux fan can indeed control the temp of the radiator. I have it rigged to run full time; To do this, all you need to do is jumper the connector at the drivers side front of the radiator. This is a valid point, but the temp gauge has stayed in the same place as it was before I removed the belt fan. I don't think that underhood temperatures are causing this.

-Beechcraft Bonanza's and other airplanes with an engine called the Continental IO-520 for years had problems with hot starts. Why? The injector tubes were mounted right on top of the engine, and the 8.5 liter air cooled six cylinder engine would bake them with heat after shut down. The gasoline in the lines would vaporize, and if you tried to start the engine a few minutes later, you had a terrible time. That was on pure Avgas. The 928 has its fuel rails right above the heads, so there is no shortage of heat. I checked tonight with a pyrometer; the drivers side fuel rail indicated 161 degrees right after shut down!

* ROW '85 928, injectors rebuilt/flow matched three years ago. NO O2, no cats. I ran pure 100LL for a month in 2003, and wound up with what I suspect was plug fouling. It ran too cool, and the lead started to build up. That is why I want to mix 90 octane NO ETHANOL Sunoco with Avgas; proper octane and no alcohol.

* My S2 does have the idler valve, and it is working. I have done the WD-40 fix as depicted on Rennlist to it several times, it works. There is an idle issue with the car, and it has to do with the throttle cable, which is gummed up and needs to be replaced. I pressed very gently on the throttle during cranking and it made no difference.

* The station I fill up at is the same one that I have been using for several years. It is on Wilton Drive in Fort Lauderdale, has a lot of traffic, and they had to replace their tanks about 5 years ago. The pavement in front of the place is fresh and white.

* My girlfriend fuels her VW CC in the same station and hasn't had any problems. Hmm- this is a good point.

* YES, normally, I leave my car sitting for a week at a time. I generally have a week on, week off schedule, but I've had vacation these past two months. Admittedly, I'm getting senior and I bid my schedule cleverly in order to do this. This means that the car has been used about 5 miles per day during this period.

[Since I fly for a UNIONIZED carrier, I basically will do no flying for my airline from September 25th until November 20th. How many of YOU get to spend two months off with your family? Think about it. A UNION did this for me.]

[TWO months off each year....to work on my Porsche~]

sorry-

* I did a search, and there are a few vapor lock stories on the 928 channel, and Rennlist is the same.

-What I have been told by small engine mechanics and boat mechanics is that their business is through the roof! They are repairing engines left and right, and the big problem is the 10% ethanol gasoline. It is DESTROYING the cheap Chinese carburetors on all of these, and even the better ones, and they are making a lot of money replacing them. I have already gone to PURE GAS for my boat, for my generator, and for all my power tools. I'm sure that this stuff is causing the problem that occurs about one time in ten in my car. Porsche says that up to 10% ethanol is acceptable in their cars, and 0% methanol, but I'm not buying it. My fuel pressure is fine, my injectors are fine...folks it is the vapors. It is the gas.

And if it isn't I'll know real quick won't I!

Thanx for your help Esel Mann; If you ever work your way down here, let me know. I do my timing belts every 45k at Zotz Garage on 436, and my FAA doctor is up there, so I come up twice per year with the car. Fly safe!

N!

You've put to much ALCOHOL in YOU!

N!

Whatever u say butcher.

You should ask around for a competent mechanic. At least you won't look so silly.

(Tall order, I know but try it anyway)

rjp

Whatever you say, sweet-cheeks!

N!

Its amazing, no matter the topic, Normy finds himself in a fight.

He's a gross polluter.

I feel sorry for his car.

rjp

People get pissed off when they hear the truth.

I'm more than happy to fight them.

-If you are happy with the status quo, then you are stupid. Or drunk-


N!

And your point would be........?

N!

Yea they do. LOL

rjp

And your point would be....

N