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lonewolf 11-10-2011 01:54 PM
NO EXCUSES.
THEY SHOULD HAVE TURNED HIM IN PERIOD.
They all had thier chance to do the right thing but they chose not to so whatever happens to them now they have brought it all on themselves.

strupgolf 11-10-2011 01:58 PM
As a Nebraska fan for so many years, I've never seen such a obscene, degrading, and downright rude student/fan body as a game at Happy Valley. I have been to many Big 12, Big 10 games over the years, but the fans at Penn State have to be the worst I've EVER encountered at any football game I've attended. I love a good game as anybody, but they take it over the edge and make you feel like you are s**t. Poor school, poor coach.

Buckterrier 11-10-2011 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macroni (Post 6363264)
To Non-Staters:

We know you don't understand. Generally, we don't try to explain. Unless you are a Buckeye or Fighting Irish, you probably don't get how an institution embeds itself in a student's life. And that is fine.

But right now, we want you to know this:
...
We are distraught and truly sickened by this horror perpetrated on young victims by one who represented the Blue and White, and perpetuated by others at the University. We aren't blind followers who drink Blue Kool-Aid. We grieve for and with the victims and their families. We pray for them to find healing and peace and a way to live a good life.

We know that while many people had responsibility, the most visible one almost always goes down first. We are not disputing the need for this to happen.

We are not "defending" anything. We are simply crushed and heartbroken. This is not the Penn State we love, the Penn State that is part of our being.

What you know of Joe Paterno probably comes from television or magazine articles.

We know the man who has lived in the same McKee St house for decades. We have chatted with him as he walked to practice. We have eaten ice cream with him at the Creamery. We have studied in the new library wing his money helped build. We have visited the sports museum and spiritual center he also helped build. We have seen him cheering on other Penn State athletes. We know he loves Penn State as much as we do.

Some of our friends, brothers, husbands, sons have been privileged to put on the Blue and White uniform and listen to 100,000 fans in Beaver Stadium. We know how hard they have worked, how much time they have devoted, how many of them have been part of an excellent scholar/athlete legacy...and how much they love this man and this program.

We aren't stupid or naive. We know Joe Paterno has culpability. We know he could have made different choices - he admitted that. We don't think he is God or always perfect or saintly. But he is the greatest college football coach ever, and he is PSU family, and we don't want his exit to be like this.

WE ARE...not closing our eyes, ignoring reports, pretending this isn't a wretched occurrence.
WE ARE...angry that innocents would be violated under our care.
WE ARE...in support of appropriate punishment for every person involved.
WE ARE...demanding change to a system that would allow this.
WE ARE...not concerned if you do not understand our love and devotion.
WE ARE...PENN STATE proud and we will rise again.
Thank you Luke. Not sure what some of the agendas are here but it's the same crap on radio & TV. And it's really funny. We as a society are morally bankrupt yet this happens and a million moralist come out of the woodwork to pass judgement. Judgement BEFORE all the ******* facts are even out. That in itself is a disgrace. I feel sorry for you folks.

Crowbob 11-10-2011 02:02 PM
And unbelievably, it gets WORSE.

Seahawk 11-10-2011 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macroni (Post 6363793)
Please do not attribute to me...
I don't. I thought it would post more clearly.

To the other poster, I have no agenda, nor, do I think the Governor of Pa and the Grand Jury have one.

Pick up your scan: inaction in a position of authority has consequences.

RWebb 11-10-2011 02:21 PM
Well, no Tobra, according to news reports Paterno's legal responsibility was to report it to his superior (which he did) not to call the police himself.

My view is that he had an ethical and moral responsibility to follow up on this, and call the police himself if they did not. But that is a different question.

Buckterrier 11-10-2011 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GH85Carrera (Post 6362833)
Joe broke the law of criminal code
How so?????? And if so why isn't he criminally charged????

landrover88 11-10-2011 02:40 PM
joepa
 
Well

They have announced that McQueary is NOT on the field Sat.

What a coward.............

If they play Sat I think they will tear the place apart.

More staff need to go they all knew what was going on.

Just a bunch of cowards just whisper it to your selves it might go away

Bradley knows as well But in Penn State style The Game Must go ON.

How many trustees do you think knew.........most all.

landrover88 11-10-2011 02:41 PM
He will be charged and I hope he goes to jail.

strupgolf 11-10-2011 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by landrover88 (Post 6363899)
He will be charged and I hope he goes to jail.
+1 to that. It all comes down to winning; just keep on winning and everything will be allright. Yea, Joe, you got your 409 wins, but at what cost? Yea, hall of fame, but at what cost Joe? You forgot about the kids Joe, you forgot about the kids. But in your mind, you got your 409. Rest in peace Joe, and all who you associate with at Penn State.

Joe Bob 11-10-2011 03:46 PM
PA has one of the weakest reporting laws. He did his duty and reported to the management. They did not followup. THEIR crime is a minor misdemeanor. 90 days and $200.

dennis in se pa 11-10-2011 03:48 PM
I believe Joe made a big mistake here, but let's not judge others anymore harshly than we would judge ourselves. How tough is it to turn in a friend and colleague for what may have been unacceptable but known to happen behavior a few years ago? I THINK I know what I would have done, but cannot say for sure, having not been it his situation.

He is an old man. He deserves respect for what he has done. I would be happy to see him brought back. I am not a Penn Stater. I just believe what is right is right. Let him finish out the year.

dennis in se pa 11-10-2011 04:05 PM
I am a Nebraska fan, but I hope Penn State wins this weekend!

RWebb 11-10-2011 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by landrover88 (Post 6363899)
He will be charged and I hope he goes to jail.
perhaps you can cite the Penn. criminal code for which law Paterno will be charged under?

Normy 11-10-2011 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McLovin (Post 6363410)
Well, these were your specific questions:

The obvious question is why would Joe Paterno risk everything by not bringing the cops into this whole hideous turn of events?

What possible benefit could Joe Paterno have by keeping this mess under the protective wraps of the Penn State organization which has worshipped him for decades?

Let's break it down.

You are the $1 million/yr coach of a high profile, big business college football team.

The entire school is basically named after you ("The House that Joe Built").

You need to keep recruiting to keep on top.

Now you find out that your long time assistant coach has been taking showers with 10 year old boys in the locker rooms of The House That Joe Built. (Undisputed fact that he knew, and Sandusky admitted to).

After knowing that, 2 more years pass and you find out that that same coach has just anally raped a 10 year old boy in those showers.

Now, think hard, is this information:

1. Good for The House that Joe Built?

or

2. Bad for The House that Joe Built?

Now, would you rather:

1. No one ever find out about it, and the story just goes away?

or

2. Everyone find out about it, it becomes national news, your blue chip recruits go away, you get implicated in it big time (b/c at the time he found out about the anal raping, he already knew Sandusky had been doing improper things with kids in the showers, b/c Sandusky admitted to it 2 years prior).

Does that help paint a picture of why Paterno would prefer that this whole thing be kept under wraps? Can you see it now?

And you've just done a wonderful job of detailing EXACTLY why Joe Paterno needs to be fired. Not why he was, but why he SHOULD be fired.

-He put the future of his team, and more importantly, the MONEY involved in front of his integrity. Integrity not as a man, but as a simple human being.

I cannot imagine what the last 9 years has been like for the boy raped in the shower. I wonder where he is now. Many rape victims have self esteem issues the rest of their lives, and many turn to drugs and alcohol. Many commit suicide. Some go on, but they are haunted by the instance the rest of their lives, and many actually turn into molesters later on. The damage done to that kid is at Nazi level. Remember the picture of the tiny jewish boy at the concentration camp in WWII Poland with his scrawny hands in the air? Joe Paterno knew this level of thing happened in HIS building, perpetrated by HIS staffer and he decided, for the better of....of all things, a college FOOTBALL TEAM to put away his humanity and attempt to sweep this rape under the rug.

-Up to this morning, I thought Joe Paterno was probably the greatest college football coach in history. Funny- I still do. The reason for this is that I suspect that MOST if not ALL of the major college football coaches in this country would do the same damn thing. This is a symptom folks; Something is BADLY wrong!

N!

strupgolf 11-10-2011 06:07 PM
Right Normy, it's a symptom and it would, and does, happen at every level of college sports. Everything is wrong about college sports and I have no clue how to fix it.

Joe Bob 11-10-2011 06:10 PM
Back in the 70s, there was a trainer at Occidental College. He had some weird habits. The local HS continued to send student athletes over there for treatment. I got a wierd vibe....stopped going.

We had two students "come out" that year.....both of them were over there a lot.

This type of thing has been going on for years....just sayin'.....

Wilhelm 11-10-2011 06:22 PM
I didnt want to read 9 pages of posts about this so forgive me if this has been said already...it probably has. I find the amount and the nature of the media coverage given to this story to be absolutely ridiculous. Joe Paterno was only a football coach. The media is acting as though Joe Paterno walked on water. Good Grief ! So he got fired. Big deal. With all the problems we have in the world today, a football coach getting fired is worth about one minute on the news. Football coaches at some Universities make millions....Have you heard of any Proffessors making that kind of money ?? Our priorities are definitely out of whack when a football coach makes 10 or 20 times what a good professor makes.
Who gives a s*#t about a football coach getting fired ?

Buckterrier 11-10-2011 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhelm (Post 6364326)
Our priorities are definitely out of whack when a football coach makes 10 or 20 times what a good professor makes.
When Joepa took over coaching in 1966 the Penn State football stadium held 30,000+. Beaver Stadium holds 107,000+. It's called cold hard cash. No professor has ever brought that to ANY college, EVER. Penn State was an agricultural university until Joe showed up. Joe's graduation rate for his players was 87%. Those professors should thank him for their jobs.
People should really stop posting garbage without knowledge.

RWebb 11-10-2011 07:16 PM
Yes, our priorities are definitely out of whack when a football coach makes 10 or 20 times what a good professor makes. A university has two roles -- it creates knowledge and it disseminates knowledge. Things are out of whack when the football tail wags the dog. I don't know how to fix it either.

Penn State is still an agricultural university. Those professors had jobs before he showed up.
Please stop posting garbage without knowledge.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW - he has retained a criminal atty - may not mean anything at this stage.

Wilhelm 11-10-2011 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckterrier (Post 6364371)
When Joepa took over coaching in 1966 the Penn State football stadium held 30,000+. Beaver Stadium holds 107,000+. It's called cold hard cash. No professor has ever brought that to ANY college, EVER. Penn State was an agricultural university until Joe showed up. Joe's graduation rate for his players was 87%. Those professors should thank him for their jobs.
People should really stop posting garbage without knowledge.
Who cares what the football stadium holds? And most football players who graduate only do so by the fact that most are in some major that requires almost no work. And at many Universities there is considerable pressure on Profs to give football players "passing grades" for eligibility. If Penn State endowment money had been spent on hiring top notch Professors instead of a Football coach, maybe Penn State would rank with Cal Tech or MIT. You say Professors should thank Joe Paterno for their jobs ???? I say again, priorities are out of whack at many Universities.

Buckterrier 11-10-2011 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWebb (Post 6364407)
Yes, our priorities are definitely out of whack when a football coach makes 10 or 20 times what a good professor makes. A university has two roles -- it creates knowledge and it disseminates knowledge. Things are out of whack when the football tail wags the dog. I don't know how to fix it either.

Penn State is still an agricultural university. Those professors had jobs before he showed up.
Please stop posting garbage without knowledge.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW - he has retained a criminal atty - may not mean anything at this stage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhelm (Post 6364416)
Who cares what the football stadium holds? And most football players who graduate only do so by the fact that most are in some major that requires almost no work. And at many Universities there is considerable pressure on Profs to give football players "passing grades" for eligibility. If Penn State endowment money had been spent on hiring top notch Professors instead of a Football coach, maybe Penn State would rank with Cal Tech or MIT. You say Professors should thank Joe Paterno for their jobs ???? I say again, priorities are out of whack at many Universities.

Gawd you people are clueless.

Rick Lee 11-10-2011 09:32 PM
I dare say I have to agree with Wilhelm here. I don't even know why these football teams are associated with colleges. The players are not really students. I went to Pitt, so I'm well familiar with how it works at big football schools. The players are almost celebrities, you never see them in class, just at the bars once in a while and always at the field house. They get their own gyms and all kinds of perks no other student could imagine. I have no problem with it, but it should be called the minor league instead of college football. It has nothing to do with the college other than merchandising. Well, we did get season tix for around $20 a season, so that wasn't so bad.

szyzygy 11-10-2011 09:43 PM
College is a joke, period. 4 years of partying on mommy and daddy's dime.

Huge debt for the student. Huge problem for the rest of us (SallieMae funds all this, so we as taxpayers are on the hook for all the defaults from Little Johnny's basket weaving major when he can't get a job with that and stops paying back his loan)

Athletics are a joke, too. I've had people explain to me before why they are good for a university, but I don't buy it.

Macroni 11-11-2011 02:01 AM
wow..... such density.... this is a tragedy of Shakespearian magnitude.....

It is fraught with human fatality as well as overwhelming irony yet we can only discuss the he said, she said elements.....

Think of the characters.... the king, his deranged designate, the coward and his
scheming father...... the deal to keep it quiet.... the prime minster, bureaucratic minions and the Parliament all enjoying the shadow of an aging but beloved warrior paragon.... all complete with the death of an investigating persecutor....


Well at least the thread has yet to be reduced down to the traditional comments concerning a well set-up 944 or the worthiness of a mustang......

cmccuist 11-11-2011 02:20 AM
100,000 people aren't going to pay $50 - $100 each to watch a professor teach!

They're paying that money to watch football. And Joe put a good product on the field.

His punishment is now the same as Woody Hayes got at Ohio State after he punched that kid. For the rest of his life, Joe will be the great football coach who did next to nothing while children were being raped at his facility.

widgeon13 11-11-2011 02:55 AM
Well, if Sandusky was pimping these kids to major contributors as the news is now saying, this could cut pretty deep.

VaSteve 11-11-2011 04:34 AM
Isn't this a state school? Does the state of PA have some responsibility in not investigating this properly at the time?

Rick Lee 11-11-2011 04:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VaSteve (Post 6364767)
Isn't this a state school? Does the state of PA have some responsibility in not investigating this properly at the time?
Yes and yes. They'd better get their checkbook out too.

sammyg2 11-11-2011 05:40 AM
Good professor? When you find one, let me know. I'd like to meet him.
BTW I define "good" as someone who actually has a grasp of what goes no in the real world and doesn't completely believe all the BS crap he's read from what other BS professors have regurgitated. Someone who teaches reality vs. academic fantasy.


BTW, there was a criminal investigation started a long time ago concerning the homo perv and his little boys. This investigation has been open for over a decade!

Paterno would have surely been interviewed in the 90's, so there is no conceivable way he would not have known the sicko was accused of screwing little boys back then.

So it should have come as no surprise when the later allegations came up, and since he was aware of a police investigation it was his legal duty to notify police of new evidence.
Failing to do that could be considered accessory, aiding and abetting, or interfering with a police investigation.

No, this was not simply a temporary lack of good judgement for Paterno, this was intentional, willful, calculated participation in a criminal cover-up and evidence that ALL the parties involved cared more about the $50 million a year they get from their football program than they cared about the lives of those young victims.
Paterno should consider himself lucky to be walking around free right now. He and his cronies really belong in jail.

ANYONE who would come out in support of paterno on this is either completely ignorant of the details or just as fuched up in the head as that sicko predator who was seducing those little boys.

DaveE 11-11-2011 05:46 AM
I don't understand why Sandusky wasn't publicly tossed out on his ass back in '98. If any of these guys really cared about children or the University that's the action they would have taken. Why do people repeatedly try to cover things up?

Rick Lee 11-11-2011 05:56 AM
I wonder if Sandusky will survive until trial. And why the hell is he out on a low bond?

VaSteve 11-11-2011 06:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveE (Post 6364866)
I don't understand why Sandusky wasn't publicly tossed out on his ass back in '98. If any of these guys really cared about children or the University that's the action they would have taken. Why do people repeatedly try to cover things up?
What makes even less sense is that when he was "retired", he was still given free reign of the university. He should have been "retired" to a desert island or something. WTF?

deanp 11-11-2011 06:28 AM
I don't understand how through all of this McQueary still has a job. I don't understand how he didn't beat the bejeezus out of Sandusky and call 911. He called his father, and then they called Paterno? WTF??? How does he live with himself? Talk about a group of people that did nothing more than protect their own interests and do the 'minimum' required by law by reporting the incidents to their superiors.

Where were the parents in this? The grand jury report shows all kinds of gifts given to the victims.. athletic gear, video games, trips to sporting events, etc etc etc. That didn't raise suspicion? Really?

The whole thing just sickens me.

jwasbury 11-11-2011 06:31 AM
Wait...are we saying that college football is just a big business and its really not about the kids?

It was always about the Benjamins.

It comes down simply to the same ugly word we hear and see everyday on the news: greed.

I'm afraid the individuals involved have no moral compass, or a broken one at best. The same thing that allows a guy like Bernie Madoff to scam people out of billions of dollars allows a revered football coach to turn the other cheek to child molestation.

Macroni 11-11-2011 06:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammyg2 (Post 6364862)
No, this was not simply a temporary lack of good judgment for Paterno, this was intentional, willful, calculated participation in a criminal cover-up and evidence that ALL the parties involved cared more about the $50 million a year they get from their football program than they cared about the lives of those young victims.
Paterno should consider himself lucky to be walking around free right now. He and his cronies really belong in jail. .
JoePa has hired a criminal attorney to represent him. Just like Cardinal Bevilacqua has in Philadelphia. It is amazing how much more play this is getting than the church scandal did. Puts our values in perspective.

asphaltgambler 11-11-2011 06:54 AM
All the imorality on the planet always 'funnels' down into two camps - money and sex. In this case it's both

JCF 11-11-2011 10:14 AM
I hope this is not too far off topic - or incoherent - or pitiful ( light the flamethrowers, I don't care)

I am so discouraged - It just seems like there is nowhere left to find the balance to all the negative things I see and hear about and read about....
It just looks like to me the dark side has won.
What has happened to all the good people ????
I know they are out there somewhere but they seem to no longer have the power or will to affect what appears to be a wholesale abdication of simple moral responsibility and justice...
I understand no one is all good ( least of all myself) or even that, outside the true psychopaths, the bad folk are not all bad....but I just don't see any balance anymore.
It just seems that every shiny red apple is rotten inside these days...and that suspect or clearly rotten apples are so often held up as shining examples of perfection....
Maybe it has always been this way ?
I am not saying I am right, only that I feel like the the line is crumbling and I am discouraged and I don't want to give up the fight but when I look for some sign that there is something left to fight for or someone to look up to for hope and encouragement all I see around me are bad examples.
I am not religious - though I was raised Catholic - but I have seen and read too much about the Catholic Church and it's abuses and hypocrisy to not cross that one out - At the same time I can see the beauty and truth in the writings...but really - now it just seems like a license to sin - "so I committed adultery sat. night - I'll just say a prayer on sunday"....
All the other religions also seem to me to have that same gulf between the beauty of the doctrine and the messy world of Humanity...
Art ( which was my great pursuit at one time ) also seems to me irrelevant in these times...

I won't add any insight into this specific thread though I think it is relevant to it. I'm fresh out answers.
I guess it shows how desperate I am that I am posting this here on PP Off Topic....

ha

Pardon the interruption.

widgeon13 11-11-2011 10:19 AM
I blame the media. None report (or almost no one) report the feel good stories. I agree with you, the news today is just depressing and disgusting.

mossguy 11-11-2011 10:22 AM
Agreed! Good things are happening and there are good people out there. We just don't get to hear about it.


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