Help, Dryrot damage on a house that I'm buying.

Jim Bremner · 12-06-2011, 08:15 AM

The damage is on a beam that supports a bathtub in the guest bathroom. The termite guy wants to patch it up. What would be the best way to word how you want the repair to be completed?

Burnin' oil · 12-06-2011, 08:24 AM

Patch it up? With what, bondo? or another 2x4 block? Termite guy needs to stick to termites.

First step is to locate water source and fix that. Second step is to replace the beam(s) and flooring. It's hard to tell from the photo how involved the project will be but if you fix it properly now, you won't have to worry about it later.

VincentVega · 12-06-2011, 08:28 AM

Looks like it's already been 'patched' at the joist hanger. It's hard to tell from the photo but that looks lot rot to me, not just surface damage. At least clean out the rot paint and sister in a new joist. Better if you can replace completely.

Jim Bremner · 12-06-2011, 08:29 AM

Yes, the leak has been repaired. The "Fix" was done prior. The Former owners have passed on and it's their kid selling the house. The trust is wanting to patch it up

Jim

Burnin' oil · 12-06-2011, 08:34 AM

Is that in a basement or a crawl space? What are the beam dimensions? Is that a pipe support holding up the beam? Where does the beam begin and end?

Zeke · 12-06-2011, 08:56 AM

That can be worked with. It's common to treat the fungus and beef up the joists with sisters. You can't leave any soft wood or active rot. Those are the only rules.

Jim, will this bath be the subject of a remodel for accessability for your wife? If so, I'd take the credit offered as long as the lender is cool with it and apply that to the remo.

I'd look at it for you no charge unless it's in a crawl space. My crawling days are over.

But, I don't really need to see it up close and personal. My thoughts won't change.

Jim Bremner · 12-06-2011, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

That can be worked with. It's common to treat the fungus and beef up the joists with sisters. You can't leave any soft wood or active rot. Those are the only rules.
Zeke, Yes, but how far from dry rot do you want to end the sister wood? 12" 8"?

Jim, will this bath be the subject of a remodel for accessability for your wife? If so, I'd take the credit offered as long as the lender is cool with it and apply that to the remo.
This is the guest bath, I gave up the repair on a drain for the shower where we'll remodel for Joanna's needs out of good faithI'd look at it for you no charge unless it's in a crawl space. My crawling days are over.

Yup! Mine too! it's a LOW crawl space. I'm 6' tall and 195# and I'm not going to fit well

But, I don't really need to see it up close and personal. My thoughts won't change.

Thank you!

pwd72s · 12-06-2011, 09:14 AM

Sometimes it's easier to attack from the topside...cut out & replace the flooring. The way it was done in a rental I once owned...

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

There could be mold issues with that in addition to compromise of the member. Some types of mold can be quite nasty and can cause any number of health problems.

Without knowing more I'd suggest that it be replaced in its entirety - wood is cheap. A carpenter should be able to replace that in very short order (jack posts, straight R&R - total materials probably <$100, total labor about 2 hours tops unless there's some weird condition not shown in the photo).

GWN7 · 12-06-2011, 09:50 AM

Some spray foam, a quick smear of bondo and a dab of paint will make it look new

As mentioned, remove all traces of the rotten wood and spray adjoining areas with bleach/water mix to kill any other fungi.

intakexhaust · intakexhaust's Garage

Looks like rot and mold on the sub-floor too. Is the adjacent joist (where the hanger) rotted? As mentioned above, first find whats causing the damage. The water damage came first, not the termites.

Different jobs for different situations. For now, the discussion of the joist - the rotted joist 'area' would be sectioned out and properly filled with a replacement 2 X and then properly sister another joist. You might even get a double joist hanger to replace that one. If the adjacent joist is a 'rim or perimeter' type, look what might be going on above... cracked drywall, sticking window jambs, etc.. Is it a bearing wall? You might need to have a support or column, temporarily or permanent.

Ah.. just re-read... a tub above and leak is fixed. Complete the joist repair and do the bleaching on the sub-floor. Once done, you need to keep it real dry and ventilated. Good luck.

look 171 · 12-06-2011, 12:06 PM

I agree with some of the guys here. If you are going to rip out the bath, get to it then. No need to have termite guys patch it now. Are you tenting the house now? I would suggest tenting after construction is done because you will a chance to kill termites that maybe in the new lumber from the lumber yard.

It looks like something is still leaking from the top side to cause this issue with whatever its was repaired. There are several way to fix the problem. I would need to see a bit more of the underside to determine what to do. How far is this place from the entrance of the craw space? Will you be able to take another picture just from the entrance? Bottom line is, you will have to eventually get to that leak. The other way to support the weight (cast iron tub?) is to run a small girder and a couple of posts from the ground. Still you need to eradicate all of the rot. It doesn't look like we need to go that route from what it sound.

Jeff

Zeke · 12-06-2011, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

There could be mold issues with that in addition to compromise of the member. Some types of mold can be quite nasty and can cause any number of health problems.

Without knowing more I'd suggest that it be replaced in its entirety - wood is cheap. A carpenter should be able to replace that in very short order (jack posts, straight R&R - total materials probably <$100, total labor about 2 hours tops unless there's some weird condition not shown in the photo).

Criminey man, You're what's wrong with people today. I'll give YOU 2 hours to drag out the tools, set up and clean up AFTER I do the work.

Jim, AFA distance for sisters, longer is better within reason. Screws and glue are better than nails, but nails and glue are better than nails alone. You cut out the weak and damaged and fill in with good wood. Then reinforce the repair with more wood. plywood makes a good strengthening member too.

I'd go 3' to either side minimum or to the next head member. Use metal attachments to add integrity to those types of 90* connections.

look 171 · 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

There could be mold issues with that in addition to compromise of the member. Some types of mold can be quite nasty and can cause any number of health problems.

Without knowing more I'd suggest that it be replaced in its entirety - wood is cheap. A carpenter should be able to replace that in very short order (jack posts, straight R&R - total materials probably <$100, total labor about 2 hours tops unless there's some weird condition not shown in the photo).

I didn't see this until Milt responded. Gee, so how much would you pay to fix the damage based on you rate and time. Let say, 60 bucks an hour? That would be $220 total?

Zeke · 12-06-2011, 01:06 PM

Yeah, and in the 2 hours labor he's gonna treat the area for mold and fungus.

Every day another brick is laid in the wall between me and ever doing any carpentry again. A once admired profession is now a third world country act of labor.

look 171 · 12-06-2011, 01:14 PM

Jim,

If its a little of rot on the joist, you can also use a structural epoxy. We have lots of great results with Abatron. USe their Liquidwood first, then use apply their wood proxy like bondo to fill the missing chunks. You building inspector will approve it. Again, some of those guys are not that savvy so you have to convince them with Abatron's literature. We restore a Greene and Greene with this stuff and it pasted inspection without issues. I made sure the inspector and I had a chat about the products first. In your case, the epoxy may not be worth doing. Replace or sister a joist bay be the the easier solution. I have never like termite companies' repair, and I love my termite company. They are great guys.

GWN7 · 12-06-2011, 01:23 PM

If you look at the left side of the picture it appears the sub floor is over the edge of the stringer which means the sub floor will need to be replaced. Which means the floor needs to be replaced.

I saw the 2hr estimate and smiled.

How to word how you want the repair to be completed? "Remove water damaged wood and replace said wood to existing building code requirements. Treat area for mold and fungus."

look 171 · 12-06-2011, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

Yeah, and in the 2 hours labor he's gonna treat the area for mold and fungus.

Every day another brick is laid in the wall between me and ever doing any carpentry again. A once admired profession is now a third world country act of labor.

Yeah, you can say that again about general framing and repair work. I couldn't compete with them. My neighbor repaired their all their rotted joist with leaking tiles, hired some boarder lizard to redo it. I try to tell him a builder's felt and Hardi backer board ain't going to do the job. they will have to replace all the floor joist again in 5 -8 years. A large piece of stucco fell and almost hit one of their guest during one of their outside dinner party. Guess who's opening up that mess come Feb. I really feel bad for these guys who has to do it twice.

I like to think finish carpentry and wood working (accurate not hand work like they do in third world with a chisel) is still admired.

look 171 · 12-06-2011, 01:30 PM

Jim,

The bottom line is the floor has to come out and get after the water penetration. Sister the joist, put a band-aide on it and use it until you are ready to rip it out. Nothing will happen and it will be there for another 5-10 years. Spend little money on it and get it going now then fix it right in a later day. That's my advice. Again, we need to actually see it.

dad911 · 12-06-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

What would be the best way to word how you want the repair to be completed?

Remove tub, inspect for further rot, remove rotten floor, remove & replace failed joist(s) and hangers, and replace.

I wouldn't touch that repair for a few hours labor and $200 materials. I'd bet to do it right its going to cost $1500+