Question for PPOT Braintrust, but this likely needs a woman's point of view
 

I don't want to go into too many details but will outline the situation:

Young lady, college graduate who went on mostly scholarships, good grades in business and good understanding of mathematics, poor understanding of science.

Young man who took out loans, partied, failed some and managed to pass with a Liberal Arts Degree.

(Yep, see the train wreck coming in now don't we....:(:()


So, young lady is attractive but tomboyish. Had very few dates in high school and only went out with two people in college. Raised with Christain values in ULTRA conservative household. Stated ambitions to professional school, took and passed tests, and interviewed to enter some programs after graduation. Shows drive to succeed and wants to have nice things in life and own a few acres of land.

Young man partied and knew lots of girls. Vision of life: Video games, strip clubs, parties, drinking, doublewide on an acre or so, and such things. Lazy, starts to show up to do some work but manages to delay involvement until it is all done. Oh, and then has opinion on how others did it wrong.


No drugs, guns, kids, or other such things involved. Total trainwreck not avoided but maybe some padding?


The second person the young lady dated is above referenced young man. Boy tells girl he loves her. She's never had that before so she falls for it. Does not feel to be real to her but who knows. Starts seperating girl from her family and working to integrate her into his. His mother starts lashing onto her and telling her how she must join their family.

Boy tells girl he'll never leave her, crying (literally with tears) about how he has to have her in his life. Goes on for months. Girl agrees to marry but must wait a year.

She catches up to him in school and they graduate together (two years difference, she finished a year early).

He continues working at the dead end job of loading trailers (forklift and by hand) and finds a job making about $18K per year. He talks her out of graduate school as it is so expensive and he has bills to pay. She drops all educational goals and drops out of programs she was accepted to.

Leaves poor job to apply for lower paying job as teacher's aide ($14K per year).

Boy continues to find time for video games and clubs. Sends girl out to spend time with his sister-in-law so he and his brother can continue in their old ways.



Now, you have a basic story line the question is:

How do break them up before the wedding date? I was told to keep out of it two years ago, now my methods are too late and will only accomplish driving her closer. I was thinking photos of him with strippers?

Open to thoughts!

set him up with a skank and document the procedings

I feel your pain..... let's just say I am in a similar boat.

What is your relationship with the girl?

Simple...make her realize there's a BBD out there. Unfortunately she'll probably not realize this until after nuptials.

That's the critical question.

This will determine your level of involvement....

And how well did that work for you? Seriously. There is nothing that you can say to a person that really thinks they are in love to get them to change their mind. They will only believe what they want to believe. Just be there for them when things go south and resist the urge to say "I told you so."

Maybe you could sort of pave the way by giving her one of those check lists for compatability/success to play with. Might open her eyes a little so you can make other suggestions.

Tell her you love her (if that's appropriate).

Tell her not to burn her bridges into school. To be honest, she might do better in school - later.

Tell her not to get pregnant.

Let her fail, and support her emotionally after she figures it out by herself.

Can I get by with saying family relation of not-to-be-disclosed origin and I am MORE than old enough to be her father?


I was going to let her go through my own divorce proceedings from my marriage at her age. But she is 'in love' where I obviously could not have been. My ex was similiar to her not soon enough to being ex. Well, no, mine was more closely related to beelzebub.


I was leaning so hard on compromising positions but don't know if I'd be blamed for "leading the kid on"... video of him in one of those clubs? I have only been in one and that was 20 something years ago. Not being able to touch is not my thing.

Durn ya buddy!!!! Likely the most sage advice out there. Learn through pain, I did but it took alot out of my life and set me back a decade.

I don't know if you're kidding about your 'ideas' or not,

but if you value your relationship with this young girl,

you're waaaaaay waaaaaaaaaay off.

The only thing you will accomplish by interfering in that kind of manner will result in you having NO relationship with her at all.

Uhhh...well with my stepson, a summer in Europe really opened his eyes to the big world out there beyond his hometown community, gf, etc. Didn't get a chnce to have such an impact on stepdtrs...and they are still "in love" with their small town HS sweethearts.

Pont well taken, tho.SmileWavy

That beoing said...encourage them to live together for a few years, enjoy their time together (albeit no kids yet), and see what happens.

With him discouraging her from pursuing HER dreams/education, sounds like the beginning of a controlling and possibly abusive relationship when she tries to stand up for herself.

We watched the Room Monkeys drift further apart until she hit him with a 2 x 4 (figuratively). Other than emotional support, there is little that can be done to alter young'uns impending emotional disaster. It hurts but they have to find out for themselves. Be close enough to help pick up the pieces & never ever say I told you so. Parents are (or should be) for life.

And yes, unfortunately, it can set them back years.

Ian

Romeo and Whatshername.

Same as it ever was.

Be there to help pick up the pieces or be prepared to be surprised. I cornered the young and dumb market, doesn't always end up in a ditch.

Buy them a house for a wedding gift.

Send her a link to this thread. Maybe reading your perspective will help open her eyes a little bit.

IMO anybody who suggests dropping out of school does not have that persons best interest in mind. Smuck boy should get 3 jobs to pay the bills if necessary.

Ouch, that is a difficult situation to be in. I'm not sure if your relationship is one of an authority figure (father, uncle, etc) or something else. It'd probably be disasterous to try to directly talk her out of it. Usually that has the opposite of the desired results. What my wife has always done with our kids (she's much better at this sort of thing) is talk to them in a way that seemed unbiased, but led the talk in a direction that they saw the flaw in the situation and came to a conclusion on their own. That way, they came to the conclusion that we wanted them to come to, but felt like it was their own idea. I'm just not sneaky enough to do that.

Still waiting for a woman's point of view...

Vash is still at work.






I keed!!!!!

If it was my daughter or niece, I would absolutely talk to her and ask her a few pointed questions, but in a matter-of-fact way, not judgmental. Questions like do you want to be married to a man that goes to strip clubs or drinks to much, or doesn't like to work? Does he make you a better person? Does he want you to follow your dreams/goals? Do you want to spend the rest of your life living in a double-wide with beer cans and trash littering the dirt yard?

As the conversation progresses, I would gradually turn into Sam Kinnison and when it was over, we would probably never talk again.

Young women can make the right decision and sometimes follow their parents' advice. It took me a few tries before I found one who didn't.

I met Jim's stepson after moved to Chicago. Good guy

At my age, the same things seem to happen over and over again. I can predict the future. When I am sitting around a campfire and a moth flies in, I know what will happen. The moth will circle the campfire, trying to get close to the light but deterred by the heat. Eventually, the moth catches fire.

There is something about young women that makes them prefer the proverbial "diamond in the rough" over the already-polished version. They find these boys, these "fix-it projects" irresistible. I say "boys" because that's what they are. They are not men, and they may never become men. Sadly, these young women adore these "boys."

I'd agree with the posters who are warning you that your chances of successfully protecting her from this boy are remote at best, and are more likely to injure or ruin your relationship with her. The only opportunities to guide her will be rare, occasional chances to subtly guide her. Like when she expresses her misgivings......you can nod and smile and keep your mouth shut, which will help validate her concerns. Likely, her support group will become smaller over time, therefore, I suggest you drop the persuading posture and just be someone she always feels she can talk to.

HEY!!! HAHAHHAHAH..you dcik.

back on topic. stay out of it. i had to act like a firewall for my wife's family. could be worse. the young man could be a useless illegal alien, and the young lady could have just given birth to a baby.
the family wanted to intervene..i thought it was a bad idea.

Yep, my -in laws said I'd never amount to much. My MIL even tried to cause waves when we were first married (before as well) and my wife didn't talk to her for 5 years because of it.
Skip 20+ years ahead and we have surpassed them by a considerable margin.

That said I paid the tuition so my wife could finish school.

Guys,

Yep it hurts that yall are generally right! I'm too close to this... :(:( Do not want to damage future relationships but hate the trainwreck I see a coming.

Maybe I should use a little more green in an answer above.


Gogar,

Why do you HAVE to be right???? SmileWavy



Does she have a cheap hourly rate and can she work quickly???? BUT I really deep down, mean it!


This might actually be a good tact. Now to find the right person to accomplish.



Still open to more ideas.

The heart wants what the heart wants. Show me a Dad, uncle or Brother who didn't care for his girls choice in guys and I will show you 90% of all men. The guy may be a loser in your eyes and very well be one but thats really not any of your concern now is it?

If this was your daughter you would have hoped that you brought her up with enough sense to make up her own mind and live with her decisions. That doesn't take away from your pain yet you really have no skin in the game - just she does.

Not the words you want to hear but there are no solutions to this problem because it is not a problem you have any influence on in solving. Its not your world.

(of course there is little that can't be solved with a post hole digger, 5 gallons of bleach and 50lbs of lye...)

I have a very close relative who married down. Her husband finally received his B.S. in Political Science at age 36. Still not having much success in interviews (other than being 380 lbs and a chain smoker, I primarily attribute this lack of success to the Matlock persona he attempts to exude; he has the drawl down but still needs work on the intelligence thing) so he’s talking about going back for his Masters. Meanwhile, she toils away on the 2nd shift at $13/hr still hopeful that one day she can go back to school and fulfill the requirements for the Associates she’s still working towards.

Just wait until the kids come.

She’s essentially a single parent. Matlock refuses to change diapers, has the spine and discipline of a wet dishrag and is out with the boys at least 3 times a week. Phone conversations with her last no more than 5 minutes because the kids are constantly running at full throttle in the background. At 33, she’s overwhelmed, overweight, without time for herself and taking anti-depressants. Any concern you express is answered with a “everything’s fine”. Any advice or candor that is requested is usually triggers disagreement and sarcasm.
Her self-confidence is at an all-time low and has been spiraling down since her parent’s divorce at 14. Both parents scoff at this notion, and frankly could have been better influences on her life as they were with her older brother.

But…she’s an adult. She’s making her life choices and his solely responsible for her situation.


Unfortunately, the ship might have already sailed. What you need to do, as others have suggested, is reinforce your relationship with her for the tough times are most certainly on their way. This will benefit her in her selection the next time around...
Best of luck to you. I don’t wish this situation on anyone.

this is a GREAT question. it isnt offensive or antagonistic..just ask it.

remember telling my future in-laws..
if you make her choose..
she will choose me..
followed by lots of WTF & who did I think I was..

I'm the guy who after 25 yr+ is still happily married..
I'm the guy that sends you a check every month..

wasn't a slug like the boy in ?..
I was simply young & in the Army.
they were Carter fans..
I prefer Ghengis..

Rika

you need to reach the girl thru her girl friends

also get her into a church group - maybe not an ultra-conservative one (as she may be reacting against that)

other option is to reach the boy and try to straighten him out some

where are her parents in all this?

Prenuptial agreement. No combining of finances, past or present. Have fun until the party's over.

I'm reasonably sure I didn't understand a word of the explanation above of who did what to whom and what relation one has to the other. But that hardly matters to the story. Innocent unrequited love is the best love there is.

I do have a practical suggestion.

If they want to get married in a church, most ministers will want a series of pre-marriage sessions with the young couple as a precondition of agreeing to perform the ceremony. If done right, they can be pretty intense and are meant to get people to think about the total implications of getting married so that they are ready to deal with a lifetime partner who may or may not share their same core values.

If she was brought up as a religious girl, my suspicion is that she never had sex before meeting this guy and that they're having sex now. Premarital sex is a huge issue to a young religious girl, perhaps especially for a young religious lady who is maturing from a child's understanding of sex and religion and an adult's. She can rationalize away the sin of premarital sex if she eventually marries the guy. My old sociology professor, who wrote a book called Sex, Love and Infatuation (How Do I Tell the Difference), used to admit that the easiest way to get a girl to have sex with her was to tell her with apparent sincerity that you loved her. And that once you started having sex, sex alone can keep a relationship going for five years.

I think she's probably caught up in all the dynamics of being a sheltered girl who finally had a pretty boy tell her he loved her, wrapped around the mixed joy and sin of forbidden sex with a large helping of guilt and fear that she'll go to hell unless she obtains redemption by getting married.

What I'm saying is that there may be deeply moral and religious reasons she feels compelled to be with the Bad Boy that transcend her good sense and logical reasoning, in addition to the hormonal urges we all have when we encounter the Kavorka. To put it obtusely, I mean bluntly, she may believe that she will go to Hell for having sex with Bad Boy if she doesn’t marry him.

So, I suggest you have a heart to heart talk with her, not about the young man, but about values, morality (in general, don't suggest that you suspect they're having sex) and religion. Again in general. Suggest that this Holy union of man and woman before God is a sacred event that needs to be taken with appropriate caution and with advise of those who are trained to give that advice. Point her in the direction of a good minister and suggest that she consult him before committing to get married to Bad Boy, and that when she receives assurances from the minister that her thought process is sound, that they need to complete their pre-marriage couples counseling before getting married.

And bring your concerns to the minister. Just once. Then keep in touch with the young lady. Be there if she asks questions. Don't volunteer anything. Pray for her. You’ve done all you can do.

If that fails, I have connections to a convent in a remote part of Spain. For the smallest contribution they are willing to transport and house young women who don't realize they need to be spirited away for their own good. They are repatriated some time later when the danger has passed. I'd be happy to pass along their number.

a different story of young womans future life path for after college
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/643828-dad-i-want-part-something-bigger-than-myself.html

20-somethings need to make their own mistakes. The reason that many of us can predict the future is because we lived the past rather than being told about it.

As others have said, be there to help pick up the pieces, and don't feel compelled to be an enabler.

+1

Put the bait out and see if he goes for it, then document.

Remember, the moral of the story is to keep your condoms in the glove compartment....

+1000
I wouldn't say "Smuck boy" but I would say anyone truly interested in her future would work 3 jobs to pay the bills while she went to school. This is a huge sign of a controlling person who doesn't want to feel threatened by someone who could out-earn him.