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-   -   Is it or isn't it? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/643823-isnt.html)

Porsche-O-Phile 12-09-2011 09:51 AM

Does not meet the legal definition per the CVC:

V C Section 22511.7 Parking for the Disabled
Parking for the Disabled
22511.7. (a) In addition to Section 22511.8 for offstreet parking, a local authority may, by ordinance or resolution, designate onstreet parking spaces for the exclusive use of a vehicle that displays either a special identification license plate issued pursuant to Section 5007 or a distinguishing placard issued pursuant to Section 22511.55 or 22511.59.

(b) (1) Whenever a local authority so designates a parking space, it shall be indicated by blue paint on the curb or edge of the paved portion of the street adjacent to the space. In addition the local authority shall post immediately adjacent to and visible from the space a sign consisting of a profile view of a wheelchair with occupant in white on a blue background.

(2) The sign required pursuant to paragraph (1) shall clearly and conspicuously state the following: “Minimum Fine $250.” This paragraph applies only to signs for parking spaces constructed on or after July 1, 2008, and signs that are replaced on or after July 1, 2008.

(3) If the loading and unloading area of the pavement adjacent to a parking stall or space designated for disabled persons or disabled veterans is to be marked by a border and hatched lines, the border shall be painted blue and the hatched lines shall be painted a suitable contrasting color to the parking space. Blue or white paint is preferred. In addition, within the border the words “No Parking” shall be painted in white letters no less than 12 inches high. This paragraph applies only to parking spaces constructed on or after July 1, 2008, and painting that is done on or after July 1, 2008.

(c) This section does not restrict the privilege granted to disabled persons and disabled veterans by Section 22511.5.

Amended Sec. 3, Ch. 413, Stats. 2007. Effective January 1, 2008.
Amended Sec. 13, Ch. 200, Stats. 2009. Effective January 1, 2010.

That said, I wouldn't park there either. You're guilty until proven innocent and you'll have to pay for the towing, tickets and other nonsense until you take time out of your day to go down to court and get it thrown out. Even if you win, you'll lose. Not worth the hassle.

Porsche-O-Phile 12-09-2011 09:52 AM

Here's the cross-referenced section re: offstreet parking. You need both the sign AND ground markings, technically:

V C Section 22511.8 Offstreet Parking for the Disabled Removal of Vehicles
Offstreet Parking for the Disabled: Removal of Vehicles
22511.8. (a) A local authority, by ordinance or resolution, and a person in lawful possession of an offstreet parking facility may designate stalls or spaces in an offstreet parking facility owned or operated by the local authority or person for the exclusive use of a vehicle that displays either a special license plate issued pursuant to Section 5007 or a distinguishing placard issued pursuant to Section 22511.55 or 22511.59. The designation shall be made by posting a sign as described in paragraph (1), and by either of the markings described in paragraph (2) or (3):
(1) (A) By posting immediately adjacent to, and visible from, each stall or space, a sign consisting of a profile view of a wheelchair with occupant in white on a blue background.

(B) The sign shall also clearly and conspicuously state the following: “Minimum Fine $250.” This subparagraph applies only to signs for parking spaces constructed on or after July 1, 2008, and signs that are replaced on or after July 1, 2008, or as the State Architect deems necessary when renovations, structural repair, alterations, and additions occur to existing buildings and facilities on or after July 1, 2008.

(2) (A) By outlining or painting the stall or space in blue and outlining on the ground in the stall or space in white or suitable contrasting color a profile view depicting a wheelchair with occupant.

(B) The loading and unloading area of the pavement adjacent to a parking stall or space designated for disabled persons or disabled veterans shall be marked by a border and hatched lines. The border shall be painted blue and the hatched lines shall be painted a suitable contrasting color to the parking space. Blue or white paint is preferred. In addition, within the border the words “No Parking” shall be painted in white letters no less than 12 inches high. This subparagraph applies only to parking spaces constructed on or after July 1, 2008, and painting that is done on or after July 1, 2008, or as the State Architect deems necessary when renovations, structural repair, alterations, and additions occur to existing buildings and facilities on or after July 1, 2008.

(3) By outlining a profile view of a wheelchair with occupant in white on a blue background, of the same dimensions as in paragraph (2). The profile view shall be located so that it is visible to a traffic enforcement officer when a vehicle is properly parked in the space.

(b) The Department of General Services under the Division of the State Architect shall develop pursuant to Section 4450 of the Government Code, as appropriate, conforming regulations to ensure compliance with subparagraph (B) of paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) and subparagraph (B) of paragraph (2) of subdivision (a). Initial regulations to implement these provisions shall be adopted as emergency regulations. The adoption of these regulations shall be considered by the Department of General Services to be an emergency necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health and safety, or general welfare.

(c) If posted in accordance with subdivision (e) or (f), the owner or person in lawful possession of a privately owned or operated offstreet parking facility, after notifying the police or sheriff’s department, may cause the removal of a vehicle from a stall or space designated pursuant to subdivision (a) in the facility to the nearest public garage unless a special license plate issued pursuant to Section 5007 or distinguishing placard issued pursuant to Section 22511.55 or 22511.59 is displayed on the vehicle.

(d) If posted in accordance with subdivision (e), the local authority owning or operating an offstreet parking facility, after notifying the police or sheriff’s department, may cause the removal of a vehicle from a stall or space designated pursuant to subdivision (a) in the facility to the nearest public garage unless a special identification license plate issued pursuant to Section 5007 or a distinguishing placard issued pursuant to Section 22511.55 or 22511.59 is displayed on the vehicle.

(e) Except as provided in Section 22511.9, the posting required for an offstreet parking facility owned or operated either privately or by a local authority shall consist of a sign not less than 17 by 22 inches in size with lettering not less than one inch in height which clearly and conspicuously states the following: "Unauthorized vehicles parked in designated accessible spaces not displaying distinguishing placards or special license plates issued for persons with disabilities will be towed away at the owner’s expense. Towed vehicles may be reclaimed at
____________________________________ or by telephoning
(Address)

________________________________________."
(Telephone number of local law enforcement agency)


The sign shall be posted in either of the following locations:

(1) Immediately adjacent to, and visible from, the stall or space.

(2) In a conspicuous place at each entrance to the offstreet parking facility.

(f) If the parking facility is privately owned and public parking is prohibited by the posting of a sign meeting the requirements of paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) of Section 22658, the requirements of subdivision (c) may be met by the posting of a sign immediately adjacent to, and visible from, each stall or space indicating that a vehicle not meeting the requirements of subdivision (a) will be removed at the owner’s expense and containing the telephone number of the local traffic law enforcement agency.

(g) This section does not restrict the privilege granted to disabled persons and disabled veterans by Section 22511.5.

Amended Sec. 16, Ch. 404, Stats. 2004. Effective January 1, 2005.
Amended Sec. 4, Ch. 413, Stats. 2007. Effective January 1, 2008.
Amended Sec. 14, Ch. 200, Stats. 2009. Effective January 1, 2010.

trekkor 12-09-2011 10:15 AM

Who is the enforcing agency on private property?


KT

Joe Bob 12-09-2011 10:18 AM

They can call the meter maids to enforce it...yes you can fight it, but why?

Rick Lee 12-09-2011 10:27 AM

I have a buddy who got a monster ticket for parking in a space like that. He came back the next day to take photos for the court date and they had repainted it and replaced the sign to look like a totally redone handicapped spot. $220 for a college student in 1993 was a lot of money.

Head416 12-09-2011 10:31 AM

It looks to me like the spot on the right WAS a handicapped spot, then the lot was re-done and it was intentionally made a regular spot. I suspect the sign on the wall was missed when it was changed.

Technically/legally, I'm sure you could get in trouble for parking there.

I never park in handicap spots, and people who do piss me off. I parked in the first spot next to a handicap spot at Best Buy the other day and when I was walking back out to my car I noticed the faded blue paint under the back of my car like you see in your picture. In front of my car was a pole with no sign on it. I don't know if I screwed up or not but I sure felt nervous and got out of there before somebody could confront me.

In this example I would probably park there then see the sign on the wall when I came back out! I didn't notice it in the picture until somebody pointed it out.

HardDrive 12-09-2011 11:25 AM

Law here in WA is clear, the sign on the wall is what makes it a handicap spot. The spot on the left is not handicap because of the lack of sign. I've actually had this conversation with a former cop about 5 years ago.

island911 12-09-2011 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moses (Post 6417350)
The parking stall on the right. Is it a handicapped only space? You can see the faded paint indicating that it might have been at one time and is no longer... But there is a "Handicapped Parking" plaque on the wall of the building in front of the spot. Well?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1323297217.jpg

Your poll gives false options. Clearly the one on the right is reserved for those with questionable handicapped placards. :cool:

Moses 12-09-2011 05:23 PM

Quote:

<div class="pre-quote">
Quote de <strong>Moses</strong>
</div>

<div class="post-quote">
<div style="font-style:italic">It's outside my office in San Ramon. And I know the answer to the question. <img src="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg"><img src="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg"><img src="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg"></div>
</div>Okay, what is the answer?<img src="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/wavey.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wavy" class="inlineimg">
It is NOT a handicapped space. It was several years ago but no longer. The sign on the building needs to be pole mounted in front of the space on the left. No one has been cited, but it sure creates a lot of confusion in a parking lot where it's hard to find a spot. I never park there.

dad911 12-09-2011 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moses (Post 6422602)
It is NOT a handicapped space. It was several years ago but no longer. The sign on the building needs to be pole mounted in front of the space on the left. No one has been cited, but it sure creates a lot of confusion in a parking lot where it's hard to find a spot. I never park there.

Bring a cordless drill to work, remove the sign, and park there...... ;)

Erakad 12-09-2011 10:20 PM

Looks like one to me as well, but agree it also doesn't look ADA compliant. Did you find out the answer the hard way?

wdfifteen 12-10-2011 04:05 AM

It just takes a little common sense to figure this out.
The one on the left is reserved for Asians, as indicated by the image of the ricksha; the one on the right is for the driving impaired. You can see where they give them a few inches more space to fit into.

Moses 12-10-2011 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erakad (Post 6422988)
Did you find out the answer the hard way?

No. I pulled into the spot then noticed the sign in the shade. I moved. I ran into the building manager later and he told me it was no longer a handicapped spot. I suggested he take the sign down because it's a little confusing.


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