What do you think of letting a lawyer...

[recycled sixtie]

handle all my mother's estate as she is agreeing that she is barely capable of looking after her own money. Her signature has become a spider's crawl and is hardly comparable to her signature one year ago. I have a sister that lives in the same country as my mother and I live thousands of miles away. The paperwork for my mother's estate is with my sister and mother. My sister mentioned getting power of attorney over my mother's estate, of course jointly. I feel that the lawyer who has my mother's will should handle all her money disbursements etc. My mother is in her 90's now. Can I trust the lawyer? I cannot find any reviews on the lawyer's firm. I have got to the point where I really dont trust anybody with my mother's estate except myself. Your input would be really appreciated.

[Rot 911]

What country is your mother and the lawyer located?

[Hugh R]

Lawyer will get richer on her estate. He'll charge $400 per hour to write $125 in checks for bills.

[wdfifteen]

He'll bleed her dry.

[Dueller]

I think you should probably have a conservtor aappointed,,,or co-conservator. Use the lawyer for true legal issues, not minesterial acts of paying bills, etc. Your sister is there to handle day to dy needs...big decisions cn be made jointly between the two of you. By having a conservaatorship, the court will be there to assure there is no abuse of your mother's finances.

Only as a last resort would I allow a lawyer to directly deal with her money...just gets too expensive. Unless there is no one else to do it.

PS: I'm a lawyer. Don't thinkl he would do anything dishonest...it just could get expensive. Likewise I would not allow a bank officer to serve as trustee/conservator.

[recycled sixtie]

My mother lives in England, the lawyer is a short walk from her place. My sister lives about a 3 hour drive away from my mother. I live in Canada.. I understand the costs involved of hiring a lawyer to write cheques for her. Is the latter the optimum solution?
Signed NO TRUST

[svandamme]

It would depend on the UK, UK is not Canada or the US. Different rules, different ways of doing things.

Odly enough, i'm going to see a lawyer this evening, to get the court to order my dad legally missing and assign his estate and affairs to the care of a notary.. But this is Belgium , and a completely different situation...

[Dueller]

Is she able to handle small day to day trnsactions? Like shopping for groceries, etc? Is she living independently in her own home/apt? Utilities, rent, mortgae, etc can be set up on a direct bank draft.

[recycled sixtie]

She is in a full service home since she broke her hip. She cannot go to the bank any more. I have set up a standing order(UK term for auto debit) for the full service home fees and her telephone. Do I trust lawyers? Most of them yes but my family in the past has dealt with a couple of bad ones(how do you sue a lawyer- forget that idea!).

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

She is in a full service home since she broke her hip. She cannot go to the bank any more. I have set up a standing order(UK term for auto debit) for the full service home fees and her telephone. Do I trust lawyers? Most of them yes but my family in the past has dealt with a couple of bad ones(how do you sue a lawyer- forget that idea!).

Sounds like you've got most of her needs covered. Is she mentally incopetent? Main concern I would have is someone taking advantage of her (Not the lawyer). Best to tie up her assets so she cannot squander them given her infirmed state.

[Mark Henry]

Just put it in trust (power of attorney) between you and your sister, give sister signing rights on an agreed amount per/month (allowance) and known bills. Sister can only claim expenses on legitimate costs, etc. anything bigger she needs you to co-sign (fed-ex) the cheque. You only need the lawyer to set up the trust.
If she has an estate plan and living will this might already be in place.

Does she have a will?

If she does then that's the lawyer you should ask. He'll also tell you who the trustee is/are.
If no will then you may have to petition the court to have a trustee assigned and the estate will be a mess.

My mums a war bride with family still in London.

[Zeke]

No need to have a lawyer while you and sis are still here and/or she has other relatives.

[MauleM5-235]

I am a lawyer, so I may have a different point of view.

Be very careful about handling this w/ you or your family members doing the work such as signing checks, etc. Nothing breaks up a family or causes problems quicker than money issues. I have helped resolve several situations where a "trusted" family member or friend took advantage of their position to line their own pockets. In any of those situations, the cost of a professional trustee or lawyer to do it right the first time would have been a mere fraction of what was lost.

As far as suing a lawyer - any competent lawyer will have malpractice insurance. It is required in Oregon. I have found that malpractice carriers are more eager than most insurers to settle and avoid trial. It seems they do not want to go to trial w/ their insured being a defendant because of the fear a jury will be particularly harsh on a lawyer who is a defendant.

[recycled sixtie]

commonsense attitude of maulem25. Lets say my mother passed away and my sister would ideally deposit my mother's financial records with my mother's lawyer. I am correct in saying that any attempt to cash in anything before her lawyer processed my mother's estate would be illegal? My sister had suggested power of attorney over my mother's asset but I feel uncomfortable with my sister and myself doing that as she is so close to my mother distancewise. I think that it would be expensive for my mother's property to be administrated by a lawyer(obviously minimize the transactions etc to cut costs) but it would give me peace of mind. I think the cost would be worth the peace of mind. Thank you all for your input

[Joeaksa]

We put everything in a trust and it really helped in the end. When my parents passed there was no distribution of the assets as we were the secondary trustees and the control of everything simply passed to us. Avoided A LOT of hassle, taxes and bad will.

[Rot 911]

I think most of you know I am an attorney. Take that for what you think it is worth. My first question was "what country" because that is important in giving a useful answer.

First off, I agree with Maulem25 about having a family member in charge. If that family member isn't you, then you better have complete trust in the one that is in charge.

All lawyers are not ambulance chasers trying to make a quick buck. Many of them are in public service, the military, social services, and the like, making middle class wages.

Some, like me and Dueller, are more of the small town solo practitioner type. I like to think of myself as Atticus Finch with a Porsche.

Now more to the point. There are many attorneys who deal in nothing but elder law, which includes handling the finances of the elderly. Most are excellent at this, some, not so good. But all in all they really do try to look out for the best interests of their clients.

If my mother was elderly (well she is going to be 85 this year) and lived in England, I would be looking for a solicitor that practices mainly in elder law to handle her finances. I would expect to pay them for their work and I would expect to get monthly reports on the state of her finances.

If you want your sister to take care of things then she will need to get Power of Attorney to do so from your mother.

Now back to the England issue. Things work a bit different there. Here is as short a synopsis that I could come up with:

Why do you need power of attorney?

Everyone knows you should write a will to make sure your loved ones are provided for when you die, but what happens if you are left mentally unable to make decisions because of accident or illness?

With an ageing population it happens more than most people think - and if you haven't got power of attorney specifying who can look after your affairs you'll have to go through the Court of Protection. The court was set up to protect the assets of vulnerable people.

Recent changes in the law

In 2007, as a result of the 2005 Mental Capacity Act, the new Court of Protection replaced the former office of the Supreme Court with the same name and was given an extended jurisdiction.

According to The Ministry of Justice, these changes have resulted in a more personalised approach, giving most people who deal with the court greater flexibility over how money is spent, whilst still safeguarding vulnerable people.

However the court is still seeing high levels of complaints and in December the President of the Court of Protection Sir Mark Potter announced he was setting up an ad hoc committee to review the Court's rules once again.

How to grant control of your finances - lasting power of attorney

There's an easy way to avoid the Court of Protection, and that's to grant someone you trust lasting power of attorney, giving them the right to look after specific aspects of your financial affairs or health and welfare after you lose the capacity to do so.

You can get copies of the forms needed to complete either a Property and Affairs Lasting Power of Attorney covering money matters, or a Personal Welfare LPA covering medical matters, from the Office of the Public Guardian.
You can chose to appoint anyone you trust as long as they are over 18 and not bankrupt.
You need to fill in the forms and get it signed by all relevant parties (yourself, an independent third party called a certificate provider who verifies your capacity, and the person you're appointing power of attorney)
In addition you should list one or more people who you want notified of the application, if you list no one an additional certificate of capacity must be provided.
Registration costs £120 per form. Certain people, including those on means tested benefits and those earning less than a certain amount per year may be entitled to fee remissions, details of which can be found on the site of the Office of the Public Guardian.
The Lasting Power of Attorney must be registered before it can be used. This means that if you want to you can save it until a time when it's needed. However the advice is to get it registered as soon as you can firstly to avoid the long registration waiting period in emergencies, and secondly because if you've made mistakes and it's declared void it will be too late.
Prior to 2007 it was possible to make Enduring Power of Attorney. This was a simpler document but didn't include some of the important safeguards against fraud built into Lasting Power of Attorney. It is no longer possible to make an EPA but they are still valid if they were made prior to 2007.

See? So easy anyone could do it!

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by Rot 911

See? So easy anyone could do it!

Yes but YOU do it for a living! Suppose next I get to teach you how to land the plane?

Thanks for the education. Wish I had known more about this 20 years ago when my parents passed...

Joe A

[recycled sixtie]

Thanks Maule and Rot 911 and others. The problem is lack of trust between my sister and myself. My sister, myself and the lawyer are joint executors and trustees of the estate. I have not found the lasting power of attorney details but just the will so I will try and verify if the lpa is in place with the lawyer. It may not be. Seeing that it was my sister that suggested power of attorney over my Mother's estate, then I would think that it would need the concurrence of our lawyer and myself to put it in place?The only way I would agree to POA would be in the hands of the lawyer. I could not trust my sister as I live too far away. Unfortunately I cannot get reviews of our lawyer in the UK as to trustworthiness. Is there a way in the UK to find out how honest a lawyer/solicitor is?

[svandamme]

You need to check with somebody who has knowledge of the local laws.
US lawyers,ideas and concepts are worth eff all if the person that needs the care is in the UK.

Like i said, in Belgium this would have to be done via the court who would assign a notary as care taker of the financial affairs.

I don't know how the UK does it, they might have a similar way of doing it, or not.

You need UK specific legal advice, not general US legal advice.

[MauleM5-235]

Svandamme posted: "You need UK specific legal advice, not general US legal advice." He is in Belgium. While he is generally correct, the US and UK legal systems are similar systems. After all, the US system developed out of the UK system. Thus, the same general concepts will apply although the specific application will depend on the local laws. There is no substitute for knowledge of the local laws.

Warning - thread hijack ahead. I generally will not prepare a Will for a client unless it is done as part of a complete package including the Will, Durable Power of Attorney, Advance Health Care Directive and letters explaining the Power of Attorney to the person so designated.

These documents all address what will happen to the client and/or the client's property in the event of incapacity or death. The Will addresses what happens to the client's property (i.e. Estate) in the event of death. The Durable Power of Attorney addresses what happens to the client's property and financial affairs in the event the client is incapacitated, but still alive. The Advance Health Care Directive addresses what happens with the client's health care in the event of incapacity or serious health conditions. Once the client has decided to face these difficult type of issues, there is no reason to not do everything all at once.

There are multiple ways to check out a lawyer in the U.S. You can contact the State Bar to see if the lawyer has an disciplinary record, and check a lawyer rating service such as Martindale-Hubel (although those should be taken w/ a large grain of salt). Whether that is possible in the UK I do not know, but I would expect there is something similar.

If recycled sixtie has trust issues w/ his sister (for whatever the reason), having a professional fiduciary involved is a VERY good idea. Do not be penny-wise and pound-foolish. The supervision of that fiduciary may prevent the breakdown of the family relationship by preventing conflict.