Gibson Guitar factory raided

[pwd72s]

Federal Agents Raid Gibson Facilities In Nashville, Memphis - NewsChannel5.com | Nashville News, Weather & Sports

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Without reading I'm going to guess it's the "incorrectly documented once-living material" BS. Again.

[svandamme]

Where was Slo-Dave that day?

[sluk]

Over illegal hardwoods?

[sammyg2]

[gt350mike]

Gibson was a customer of mine back in the late 90's and the plant manager told me back then the availability of wood, especially the more exotics, was limited and becoming more difficult to acquire. The Nashville facility makes custom guitars and the products are truly amazing, but so are the prices. Seems like I recall most of the electric guitars were $2k and up but that was 12 years ago. Somebody like Slo Dave who knows more about Les Paul guitars can chime on where the market is today.

[deathpunk dan]

Q for the Gibson experts:

How come the les pauls on the wall at Guitar Center mostly play like crap? Like, why does my 1990 Gisbon LP jr 'hall of fame edition' poop all over the later reissues?

Why does Gibson insist of fouling up classic designs like the ES 335 with unnecessary updates and changes?

I feel the same way about Marshall amps, for that matter. My 86 JCM800 2205 backdate (more or less) to JMP mkII specs (removed diode clipping etc) crushes later ones tone-wise.

What's the deal?

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally Posted by deathpunk dan

Q for the Gibson experts:

How come the les pauls on the wall at Guitar Center mostly play like crap? Like, why does my 1990 Gisbon LP jr 'hall of fame edition' poop all over the later reissues?

Why does Gibson insist of fouling up classic designs like the ES 335 with unnecessary updates and changes?

How much time do you really think GC puts into setting up the guitars they have on the wall? All they care about is moving product out the door.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

It's worse than you know...in some cases FOSSILIZED material is being seized by the Green Gestapo.

Meanwhile Japan continues to kill over 1000 whales a year for "scientific purposes"--and puts the meat in school lunches to make sure the kids develop a taste for it.

[targa911S]

Originally Posted by deathpunk dan

Q for the Gibson experts:

How come the les pauls on the wall at Guitar Center mostly play like crap? Like, why does my 1990 Gisbon LP jr 'hall of fame edition' poop all over the later reissues?

Why does Gibson insist of fouling up classic designs like the ES 335 with unnecessary updates and changes?

I feel the same way about Marshall amps, for that matter. My 86 JCM800 2205 backdate (more or less) to JMP mkII specs (removed diode clipping etc) crushes later ones tone-wise.

What's the deal?

It's about CASH.

[Superman]

All new guitars, including expensive ones, need to be set up by a Luthier. They play like crap. After an hour or so on a good Luthier's bench, they play effortlessly.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by gt350mike

Gibson was a customer of mine back in the late 90's and the plant manager told me back then the availability of wood, especially the more exotics, was limited and becoming more difficult to acquire. The Nashville facility makes custom guitars and the products are truly amazing, but so are the prices. Seems like I recall most of the electric guitars were $2k and up but that was 12 years ago. Somebody like Slo Dave who knows more about Les Paul guitars can chime on where the market is today.

The Standard line and Customs are still at that starting point ($).

For Gibson to make high quality guitars, they need high quality wood. As has been pointed out, most of that wood is gone. The reason the 50's and early 60's Gibsons are sought after, is because of the wood, "old growth". Up until those times and a little later, the wood was used everywhere and no one really thought about the fact that there was a limit. Only after the forests were depleted, it was realized that there was something special about those trees. The stockpiles that were left became like gold and the prices shot up. The governments where the trees came from also wised up and started to heavily tax and require expensive permits to export the wood.

Old growth wood came from forests that were dense and had canopies that prevented sunlight from reaching the floor. Because of this, the trees grew a lot slower and were dense. Most of the wood today, comes from newly planted forests that are a spaced out, allowing the trees to grow faster, but are less dense and not always as desirable for musical instruments. Any old growth forests that are left are protected, much like elephants and rhinos in Africa... Because the wood is so highly sought after, there are loggers that try to cut them down and sell for a huge profit on the black market.

Today, Gibson is having problems acquiring enough wood to keep up with production and at a reasonable price. The three woods that Gibson needs, that are hard to come by are Mahogany, Rosewood and Ebony. Maple is the fourth wood, but it comes from America and is still plentiful and probably will always be. The Mahogany Gibson uses is called "Honduras Mahogany", as it used to come from... Honduras. Today, the species is grown in places like Asia, where the climate is similar. There is Mahogany that comes from Africa, but because of the climate, it has always been less dense and lighter. It is used by some, but whether old or new growth, the Honduras species is better suited.

Did Gibson acquire illegal hardwoods? Only they know for sure... It will be up to the various governmental agencies to figure out where the wood came from and if it is legal. It hurts Gibson, that's for sure. Impound a wood pile and they can't build guitars. The wood won't really deteriorate if kept in warehouses, though Gibson does keep its stick in climate controlled buildings, whereas the stuff that was confiscated won't be and will start to warp or check, possibly rendering some of it unusable.

[VaSteve]

I read the article, do they offer a lemur lined case?

[McLovin]

They probably trampled over a dozen illegal alien workers on their way to that illegal wood.

[Superman]

I watched a show once where a, unsuccessful treasure-hunter (Caribbean wrecks) was SCUBA diving in a lake near his east coast hometown, and saw a pile of BIG logs on the bottom. Did a little research, and discovered those were unusually dense old growth trees that the mill (two hundred years ago) didn't care about cuz' they sank. He sought and achieved the necessary permits, and has now made his fortune selling wood from those logs to musical instrument makers. Apparently, the oxygen-free environment at the bottom of that lake was the perfect preservative/aging treatment for that wood. On the show, he sliced open a pitch-black log to reveal the most beautiful honey-colored bird's eye maple (with eyes as big as your thumb).

Stradivarius used to put wood in water for years before using.

[9dreizig]

News is now saying they are investigating illegal wood from India.. I'm sure Gibson got it at a 7-11 all legal when they got their slurpies

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Superman

I watched a show once where a, unsuccessful treasure-hunter (Caribbean wrecks) was SCUBA diving in a lake near his east coast hometown, and saw a pile of BIG logs on the bottom. Did a little research, and discovered those were unusually dense old growth trees that the mill (two hundred years ago) didn't care about cuz' they sank. He sought and achieved the necessary permits, and has now made his fortune selling wood from those logs to musical instrument makers. Apparently, the oxygen-free environment at the bottom of that lake was the perfect preservative/aging treatment for that wood. On the show, he sliced open a pitch-black log to reveal the most beautiful honey-colored bird's eye maple (with eyes as big as your thumb).

Stradivarius used to put wood in water for years before using.

"sinkers"

it's a pretty good niche lumbering biz - I know people doing it here (D. Fir & Pine both) and in Louisiana (cypress).

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Superman

I watched a show once where a, unsuccessful treasure-hunter (Caribbean wrecks) was SCUBA diving in a lake near his east coast hometown, and saw a pile of BIG logs on the bottom. Did a little research, and discovered those were unusually dense old growth trees that the mill (two hundred years ago) didn't care about cuz' they sank. He sought and achieved the necessary permits, and has now made his fortune selling wood from those logs to musical instrument makers. Apparently, the oxygen-free environment at the bottom of that lake was the perfect preservative/aging treatment for that wood. On the show, he sliced open a pitch-black log to reveal the most beautiful honey-colored bird's eye maple (with eyes as big as your thumb).

Stradivarius used to put wood in water for years before using.

Not just instrument makers...Old growth maple, salvaged from sunken cargo vessels in the great lakes. is prized for pool cue shafts. Such "timeless" shafts sell for $250 and up, depending on the cue maker and the density of the rings. These shafts have the reputation of playing stiffer, with better feel and less deflection. In other words, better playing than even the top laminated shafts.

From the website of Josey custom cues, the guy who made my playing cue:
"*** Timeless Timber shaft (old growth ring) $250.00 and up."

[Shuie]

This is the 2nd time Gibson has been raided in the last 2-3 years. The first time it was the Nashville plant.

[slodave]

It doesn't even stop with new instruments...

The tangled intersection of international laws is enforced through a thicket of paperwork. Recent revisions to 1900's Lacey Act require that anyone crossing the U.S. border declare every bit of flora or fauna being brought into the country. One is under "strict liability" to fill out the paperwork—and without any mistakes.

It's not enough to know that the body of your old guitar is made of spruce and maple: What's the bridge made of? If it's ebony, do you have the paperwork to show when and where that wood was harvested and when and where it was made into a bridge? Is the nut holding the strings at the guitar's headstock bone, or could it be ivory? "Even if you have no knowledge—despite Herculean efforts to obtain it—that some piece of your guitar, no matter how small, was obtained illegally, you lose your guitar forever," Prof. Thomas has written. "Oh, and you'll be fined $250 for that false (or missing) information in your Lacey Act Import Declaration."

Guitar Frets: Environmental Enforcement Leaves Musicians in Fear | Postmodern Times - WSJ.com

I can't take the LP copy I made out of country.