WOW! Gas is $2.99 I'm Tuscon!

[vash]

Stunned. I filled up with $3.70 fuel at a Costco by my house. Now at a Costco in Tuscon....71 cents cheaper. I filled up with superU because I will be offroad. $3.19.

Bonus; my Tacoma got 22 mpg

[vash]

Sorry for typos. Stupid iPhone.

[porsche4life]

I can get regular for 2.89 in OKC.....

Or I can drive about 5 miles from home and get CNG in the new pickup for .78....

[Rick Lee]

I was in NM last week and it was well cheaper than that, like $3.14 for 91 and I think $2.68 for 86.

[Scott R]

Yea, $2.80 here in Denver for regular. Sadly diesel remains outrageous here as usual.

[red-beard]

I think the Kroger has gas for under $3/gallon. I don't pay attention since I only use diesel now.

[Embraer]

on kind of another note....when i first moved to california a year ago, i noticed how oblivious the people here were to the rest of the US. still amazes me. what's sad is the amount of "locals" ive met that have never left california. back in indiana...i don't know anybody who has never left the state to travel elsewhere.

what's even worse, are the people i've met here in california that "feel sad" for me...sad that i had to grow up out of california. HA! if they only knew....

[motion]

The local gas station here in Dana Point has 87 for 3.75 a gallon. What a deal.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by vash

Stunned. I filled up with $3.70 fuel at a Costco by my house. Now at a Costco in Tuscon....71 cents cheaper. I filled up with superU because I will be offroad. $3.19.

Bonus; my Tacoma got 22 mpg

Welcome to the world of taxes & regulation...a good education, wasn't it?

(edit) Ahhh, for a return to the 1960's "gas wars". I can remember regular for 17.9 cents per gallon.

[motion]

Originally Posted by Embraer

on kind of another note....when i first moved to california a year ago, i noticed how oblivious the people here were to the rest of the US. still amazes me. what's sad is the amount of "locals" ive met that have never left california. back in indiana...i don't know anybody who has never left the state to travel elsewhere.

what's even worse, are the people i've met here in california that "feel sad" for me...sad that i had to grow up out of california. HA! if they only knew....

Mike, you need to get out of the high desert a little more often

[A930Rocket]

The gas stations I pass got down to $2.91 here a few weeks ago, then climbed back up to $3.09 quickly and stabilized. I'm sure its cheaper in other parts of town.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by Embraer

on kind of another note....when i first moved to california a year ago, i noticed how oblivious the people here were to the rest of the US. still amazes me. what's sad is the amount of "locals" ive met that have never left california. back in indiana...i don't know anybody who has never left the state to travel elsewhere.

what's even worse, are the people i've met here in california that "feel sad" for me...sad that i had to grow up out of california. HA! if they only knew....

California IS a rather big state with a lo of varied climates and terrains...

[Embraer]

Originally Posted by motion

Mike, you need to get out of the high desert a little more often

it's even worse outside of the desert. at least a lot of my aerospace friends have traveled around. being out here, we're forced to travel around to see things. luckily, ive had the opportunity to visit every state in the CONUS.

when i go to the basin or valleys, the people become even more california-centric. it's a great state that seems to be ruined by the people. i understand why people here (average california people...not talking about the socio-economic demograph prevalent on PPOT) don't leave often.....california has lots to offer and ignorance is bliss.

[gr8fl4porsche]

Gas in St. Louis was $ 3.05 this morning. After lunch it is $ 3.28.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by gr8fl4porsche

Gas in St. Louis was $ 3.05 this morning. After lunch it is $ 3.28.

My gas always goes up after lunch . Question...I remember back in the late 70s when diesel was significantly lower than gas per gallon (and I understand it's less costly to process). What happened...supply & demand or profit$?

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by KC911

My gas always goes up after lunch . Question...I remember back in the late 70s when diesel was significantly lower than gas per gallon (and I understand it's less costly to process). What happened...supply & demand or profit$?

The government. Ultra-low sulphur diesel.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by red-beard

The government. Ultra-low sulphur diesel.

So I take it that it's no longer cheaper to process, or is that just the "rea$on" they give? Maybe SammyG will chime in...

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Embraer

it's even worse outside of the desert. at least a lot of my aerospace friends have traveled around. being out here, we're forced to travel around to see things. luckily, ive had the opportunity to visit every state in the CONUS.

when i go to the basin or valleys, the people become even more california-centric. it's a great state that seems to be ruined by the people. i understand why people here (average california people...not talking about the socio-economic demograph prevalent on PPOT) don't leave often.....california has lots to offer and ignorance is bliss.

I'd bet the average Californian wasn't born in California, and probably wasn't even born in this country!

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by red-beard

The government. Ultra-low sulphur diesel.

Supply and demand.
There was a time not that many years ago when the US, europe and middle east had a huge surplus of diesel.
The refining world wanted the gas but ended up with more diesel than they really needed, so we could import it cheeep and that kept our costs down. For many years, diesel was sold either at cost or at a loss in the US.

But with the industrialization of China and India and others, diesel is now in high demand overseas and they use all they can make.
We can't import it cheap anymore and since there's now a closed market the supply is limited and it drives the price up.
In the refining process there's always going to be some straight run diesel product made, even if not by choice. It was once considered just a byproduct and it didn't really have that much of a direct cost associated with it.
But when we decided we needed to increase the rate of diesel production we had to give up some gasoline production to do it. So then there was a clear cost offset.

There are big taxes involved but they were there when diesel was $2 so they aren't necessarily the cause. They contribute but are not the main factor.

Yesterday's crude price was around $103 /bbl so that's $2.45 per gallon, just for the raw material.
Figure 30 cents/gallon for refining ultra low sulfur diesel (a little lower in the gulf coast), and that puts the wholesale price at $2.75, not including transportation or taxes.

As of last Wednesday, the spot wholesale prices of diesel and gas in various places were:

Conventional gasoline:
gulf coast - $2.60
New York harbor: $2.68
RBOB regular unleaded gasoline (special California version): $2.90

Ultra-Low-Sulfur No. 2 Diesel Fuel
New York Harbor: $2.93
US gulf coast: $2.89
Los Angeles: $2.95

Spot Prices for Crude Oil and Petroleum Products


Sooooo given a wholesale manufacturing cost of $2.75 per gallon, the actual wholesale price is selling at a loss for gasoline and break even or a small gross profit on diesel to start to cover for the gasoline loss.

In So Cal right now, the wholesale break even price for diesel and regular gasoline when taxes are included is in the $3.45 neighborhood.
Anything above that goes to retailer and distributor profit. I paid $3.65 the other day at an arco station, so that means they're getting around 20 cents/gallon to cover their expenses. Other brands are charging more.

Note that if you are paying under $3.00 per gallon you can bet that someone is either losing money on every gallon you buy, or is not reporting and paying the taxes on it.

in Southern California the amount of money from every gallon that ultimately ends up in the gubmint's pockets varies from $1.10 to $1.40 depending on retail price and location.
That includes taxes and fees on the crude oil production, movement, sale, processing, etc.
At least $12 of the cost of a barrel of crude oil goes to the gubmint, in many cases as much as $22.

The major oil companies are making good money, on the oil.
Pulling the black stuff out of the groud is very profitable right now but the refining companies are trying to just break even.

The largest company in North America that just refines crude and markets the finished products is Valero, and they squeaked out a profit margin of 1.43% last quarter on sales of $112 billion. They must have sold allot of snickers bars and 12 packs in their convenience stores just to get that much profit. This quarter should be worse.
VLO Key Statistics | Valero Energy Corporation Commo Stock - Yahoo! Finance

Sunoco reported a profit margin of -2.88% (that negative means a loss)
SUN Key Statistics | Sunoco, Inc. Common Stock Stock - Yahoo! Finance

Oh and here's the scary part:
I expect oil prices to hit $140/bbl this summer and gas prices to hit $4.50 in so Cal by May and get near $5/gallon by mid june.

We'll see how accurate my magic 8 ball is since I got it out of the shop.

[red-beard]

How much delivery do you need to take, to get the wholesale price?